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First day without meat. (Go me!) Am I doing it right?

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xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
51 25 Mar 2010
ckimana said:
Jessum said:
Another friend asked about fish, implying they had no feelings. I responded by saying ' I think that anything could feel it's bladder explode with the change of pressure and you know, if the fish was unlucky enough to live through that, I think prehaps he felt the slow suffication that would be the end of him.'
I did an assignment on Do Fish Feel Pain? at Tafe years ago. Studies have agreed that they do feel pain.

http://www.fishinghurts.com/fishfeelpain.asp
Of course they do, they're animals.
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VeganAhimsa VeganAhimsa NSW Posts: 53
52 26 Mar 2010
I would like to recommend two books

1. "The World Peace Diet: Eating for Spiritual Health and Social Harmony" http://www.amazon.com/World-Peace-Diet-Spiritual-Harmony/dp/1590560833
2. "Becoming Vegan: The Complete Guide to Adopting a Healthy Plant-Based Diet" http://bit.ly/GnozK

Please remember being vegetarian is not cruelty free since there is more suffering and death in dairy and eggs and other animal products, than if we only ate flesh alone.

Please view articles on Peaceful Prairie's site http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

Rather than just being vegetarian, it would be far better for health, environmental and most importantly for moral reasons if you remove animal products from your diet by having one or two vegan meals a few days a week and gradually increase this till you become full vegan. I'd be happy to provide some articles about what is wrong with vegetarianism, if you are interested.

Best wishes
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
53 26 Mar 2010
VeganAhimsa said:
there is more suffering and death in dairy and eggs and other animal products, than if we only ate flesh alone.
Do you have any evidence to support this?

VeganAhimsa said:
I'd be happy to provide some articles about what is wrong with vegetarianism, if you are interested.
Wouldn't it be better if we focussed our energy on what is wrong with an omnivorous diet, before we focuss on what is wrong with vegetarianism? Abolitionists always rave of industry splitting the movement by coining one group radical (abolitionists) and one group not (incrementalists). But from what you've just said, it's quite clear - to me - who is splitting this movement into two.
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
54 26 Mar 2010
Understand: we all want the same thing. Understand: that to every destination, there is more than one route. Understand: for the animals, we have to work together.
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VeganAhimsa VeganAhimsa NSW Posts: 53
55 26 Mar 2010
Hi Matt,

I hope this finds you well. Thanks for your query as to whether there is more harm and death in dairy, eggs and other animal products, than if one just consumed flesh alone. If one does research the evidence is very clear there is. There is no paucity of information online. I invite everyone to please view the link i provided from Peaceful Prairie for information. "The Free Range Myth" http://www.peacefulprairie.org/freerange1.html

There reality is, there is no morally significant distinction between flesh and other animal products. Animals used in dairy are generally kept alive longer than those used for meat, are treated every bit as badly if not worse, and end up in the same slaughterhouse. Moreover, the slaughter of animals for meat and the dairy industry are inextricably intertwined in that there would be no veal industry without the dairy industry and dairy cows are all slaughtered and consumed.

As someone said to me, if there were forced to choose between eating a steak or drinking milk and they would make the decision solely on the basis of suffering, so they would choose the steak. To promote vegetarianism rather than veganism is similar to—and as nonsensical as—promoting eating the meat from spotted cows rather than the meat from cows without spots.

As an advocate said, "when we promote this artificial distinction, it is even more difficult for someone who gives up flesh to go vegan because she sees no reason to. As often as I have heard animal advocates urge that we should promote vegetarianism rather than veganism, I have heard vegans say that they remained vegetarians for many years before going vegan because they believed that they were being “compassionate” and acting morally, and were discharging their moral obligations to animals by not eating flesh but eating dairy products."

Donald Watson, who founded The Vegan Society in 1944 and who lived a healthy, active life until passing on in 2005, maintained that dairy products, such as milk, eggs, and cheese, were every bit as cruel and exploitative of sentient animal life as was slaughtering animals for their flesh: “The unquestionable cruelty associated with the production of dairy produce has made it clear that lacto-vegetarianism is but a half-way house between flesh-eating and a truly humane, civilised diet, and we think, therefore, that during our life on earth we should try to evolve sufficiently to make the ‘full journey.’” He also avoided wearing leather, wool or silk and used a fork, rather than a spade in his gardening to avoid killing worms. We should instill in others the reverence for life that Donald Watson had and that he passed on to us.

Thanks for your listening and for your consideration.
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ckimana ckimana NSW Posts: 2545
56 26 Mar 2010
Matt. Y said:
VeganAhimsa said:
there is more suffering and death in dairy and eggs and other animal products, than if we only ate flesh alone.
Do you have any evidence to support this?
Have to agree with Ahimsa here. Animals used for meat don't live a life of misery cooped up in cages, continually impregnated etc. If it was me I'd rather be slaughtered (no matter how cruel/painful it is for those few minutes/hours) over living confined to a cage or whatever for my entire life.

However, it's a catch 22 as most omni's will become vegetarian before vegan, not omni vegan.
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xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
57 26 Mar 2010
I really think people shouldn't give vegetarians a hard time. Going from eating meat and dairy to not the next day is HUGE. I know that my bused ody reacted badly to not eating meat to begin with, unfortunately our bodies are to it. I know that if I had of gone straight to vegan I probably would have gotten really sick, it takes time to learn how to eat this way properly. As unideal as this is, it's still a start.

When vegetarians grow up, they become vegans.
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