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Abolitionist Veganism

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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
101 18 Nov 2009
I just finished reading an essay by Dr. Steve Best based on the comparrison between the abolitionist movement in the US to dismantle the human slave trade and the current abolitionist movement worldwide to dismantle the non-human animal slave trade, as well as the hypocrisy of the Welfarist/'New Welfarist' approach to animal rights.

http://www.drstevebest.org/Essays/TheNewAbolitionism.htm

Definitely recommend it to anyone interested in what Keith Mann had to say, posted by Zoe.

However, while as thought provoking as it was, I still came out of it being able to defend what I said earler...... I think! :S
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advoc8 advoc8 SA Posts: 179
102 19 Nov 2009
Thanks Karen, I agree with this ...

***In my experience convincing someone to adopt a cruelty-free lifestyle is far less about saying 'go vegan' as it is educating that person about the cruel reality of animal industries. Most people don't make ethically conscious decisions because they are uninformed how to. And most people don't like to be preached at, but deep down they do want to be informed.***

That is exactly why I don't tell people to "go vegan". Preaching is definately an offputter. Yuck! . I don't say "eat free range" either (never will). Whomever I speak to, I allow them to make the choice to choose vegan, vegetarian or heaven forbid ... freerange themselves. It's a choice for the individual. However, the info I give them all points to veganism. If they ask me "what about free range" I tell them I don't think it makes much difference because the animals still suffer and it's not necessary to eat meat, I'm a perfect example my father was a butcher, if I can do it anyone can! This is where good literature does the speaking for you. Intelligent stuff like that of Vegan Outreach which has a title "Why Vegan?".

Also, I don't have a problem with welfare meat eaters pushing for welfare. I agree on all levels help. I also undertand different people have different comfort zones about what they can do. ie. some people don't want to protest and would rather write letters (lobby) which is great. My concern is when self-professed ANIMAL RIGHTS people are out promoting welfare. That is hypocritical and brings me back to points I raised earlier. There's a big difference between rights and welfare and these confused people need to be honest with themselves.  

In a nutshell: Welfare is for those who think it is okay for humans to use animals for their own purpose as long as the animal’s treated humanely (kindly).

If you believe in animal rights, you believe it's wrong to own or dominate another species  and believe non-human animals should be free to be themselves for themselves, not the property of humans.

So when you have AR organisations that confuse the issue it weakens the whole movement as it confuses their members who start thinking maybe there is something wrong with promoting animal rights and that maybe we are 'extremists'. confused We have enough opposition from the meat and other animal industries calling us 'extremists' etc, we don't need ourselves and so called 'leaders' making us feel this way too. That is setting the movement backwards by miles.

This is not unusual. You look at any group that starts becoming a bigger organisation, they think they can appeal to more people by becoming more 'mainstream' and then they start to slide downwards ... look at RSPCA.

Don't ever be afraid to be pointy! We need people to be pointy on this issue, it's the only thing that starts the change. It's just a shame so many pointy's are going blunt.
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advoc8 advoc8 SA Posts: 179
103 19 Nov 2009
Matt.Y said:
I just finished reading an essay by Dr. Steve Best based on the comparrison between the abolitionist movement in the US to dismantle the human slave trade and the current abolitionist movement worldwide to dismantle the non-human animal slave trade, as well as the hypocrisy of the Welfarist/'New Welfarist' approach to animal rights.

http://www.drstevebest.org/Essays/TheNewAbolitionism.htm

Definitely recommend it to anyone interested in what Keith Mann had to say, posted by Zoe.

However, while as thought provoking as it was, I still came out of it being able to defend what I said earler...... I think! :S
clap Great essay! I still have hope for liberation whilst seeing so many wonderful philosophers and sociologists speaking up for animal rights! love

Thanks for posting that link Matt. Very good reading.  cool

Interesting that it hasn't persuaded, particulary as you mentioned animals are worse off than slaves were (not that I think that has any baring) I think Dr Bests descriptions of the treatment of slaves was pretty vile.
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
104 19 Nov 2009
advoc8 said:
My concern is when self-professed ANIMAL RIGHTS people are out promoting welfare.
omg yesssssss
we so agree here.
campaigning for industry reform, in the form of the abolition of intensive farming etc, certainly isn't animal rights! it's animal welfare!
i have no problem in campaigning for animal 'welfare' -- i think some people do due to the stigma people such as Francione has attributed to the word.

only when i'm, say leafletting "Why Vegan" booklets, or leafletting for an and to vivisection, do i call what i'm doing animal rights work. for other issues, i have no hesitation in describing what i'm doing as animal welfare work.

it gets confusing though when you believe animal WELFARE is the path to animal LIBERATION, otherwise known as animal RIGHTS.
so confusing tongue
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
105 19 Nov 2009
advoc8 said:
Interesting that it hasn't persuaded, particulary as you mentioned animals are worse off than slaves were (not that I think that has any baring) I think Dr Bests descriptions of the treatment of slaves was pretty vile.
i just prefer and have invested more faith into the ideas which Karen posted.

of course though, this could all change by tomorrow.
the abolitionist stance is very attractive; it's so pure, so black and white.
i just need, at this point, a lot more convincing before i boycott petitions to end the use of sow stalls, battery cages etc etc.
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Karen Karen Australia Posts: 993
106 19 Nov 2009
Unleashed Admin
advoc8 said:
Preaching is definately an offputter. Yuck! . I don't say "eat free range" either (never will). Whomever I speak to, I allow them to make the choice to choose vegan, vegetarian or heaven forbid ... freerange themselves. It's a choice for the individual. However, the info I give them all points to veganism.
thumb

This is exactly the same approach I take.. It's hard to know how far someone is prepared to go to align their actions with their values. This type of approach encourages someone to take as many steps as they feel they 'can', without throwing the baby out with the bathwater! Nobody ever simply "told" me to "go vegan". I seriously wonder how receptive I would have been were that the case. Instead, I learned about all the horrible things that agribusiness has kept from us, and, realising that the best thing for animals was to not support these cruel industries, it was a totally natural progression from there.
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LV LV TAS Posts: 30
107 19 Nov 2009
The motivation for welfarism is rooted in a strong sense of urgency and desire to see immediate results, or a “quick fix”, but both ignore the fact that the problem – which is the cultural prejudice of speciesism held by 99% of society – is not only immune to such quick fix solutions, but is aided by such attempts acting as a barrier to nonviolent vegan education.... Read More... Read More

Welfarism hacks at the branches of treatment through reform, declaring ‘victories’ and superficial ‘results’ in an industry-dominated legislative world where such laws are passed and repealed like the change of seasons. Further, welfarism reinforces the legal structure and regulated property rights paradigm that animal exploitation is founded upon.

It plays to industry’s strength. (By “industry” I mean all animal exploiting industries taken as a whole.)

Industry is strong in politics, legislation, and deal-making. Industry also has the complete cooperation and dedication of law enforcement at every level of government, from local police up to federal agencies and the National Guard.

Welfarism takes on industry in politics, legislation and deal-making, wasting millions of dollars and thousands of hours in ridiculously futile efforts to regulate a holocaust of billions of innocent victims annually, reinforcing the system it attempts to regulate.

Welfarism ignores industry’s weakness. Industry’s weakness is that it is morally deplorable and environmentally disastrous (again, the eco-disaster will become ever more obvious as huge Asian markets increase demand for animal products).

Welfarism diverts resources away from widespread vegan education efforts. It is widespread, nonviolent vegan education which is capable of effectively attacking industry’s weakness and bringing the giant to its knees over time. And again, welfarism also reinforces the legal structure and regulated property rights paradigm that animal exploitation is founded upon.

Welfarism focuses on supply rather than demand. One of the most important things to remember is this: As long as people want to consume animal products, there will be suppliers to satisfy demand. Yes, suppliers can manufacture some additional demand through advertising, lower prices, and quality products, but ultimately, the moral atrocity is fundamentally demand-driven. It is our non-vegan family, friends, and acquaintances who are the cause of the atrocity; the suppliers are merely the middle agent hired to do the dirty work.... Read More

Welfarism focuses on reforming the methods suppliers use to produce their products. Usually, the welfare reforms suggested by welfare organizations like PETA, Farm Sanctuary, and HSUS are reforms that are in the best long-term interests of the suppliers to implement anyway. But even in the very unusual cases where industry is uniformly opposed to reforms or the reforms are not in industry’s best interest (and the even more unusual cases where such reforms are actually implemented and enforced), industry is very resilient and can move to an easier jurisdiction or find other ways of getting around such reforms. Focusing on suppliers, as welfarism does, is hacking at the branches. Focusing on demand, as nonviolent vegan education does, is striking at the root.

Welfarists, new or traditional, both accept and promote violence toward innocent nonhuman beings by promoting, rather than entirely rejecting, the regulation and reform of animal exploitation and slaughter, either as a (false and confused) ‘step’ toward the elimination of animal use, or as a permanent method of exploitation. Abolitionists entirely reject the violence of all welfare reform, regardless of whether welfare reform is (falsely) perceived as ‘step’ toward something else or as a permanent method of exploitation.
Welfarism ignores industry’s weakness. Industry’s weakness is that it is morally deplorable and environmentally disastrous (again, the eco-disaster will become ever more obvious as huge Asian markets increase demand for animal products).

Welfarism diverts resources away from widespread vegan education efforts. It is widespread, nonviolent vegan education which is capable of effectively attacking industry’s weakness and bringing the giant to its knees over time. And again, welfarism also reinforces the legal structure and regulated property rights paradigm that animal exploitation is founded upon.

Welfarism focuses on supply rather than demand. One of the most important things to remember is this: As long as people want to consume animal products, there will be suppliers to satisfy demand. Yes, suppliers can manufacture some additional demand through advertising, lower prices, and quality products, but ultimately, the moral atrocity is fundamentally demand-driven. It is our non-vegan family, friends, and acquaintances who are the cause of the atrocity; the suppliers are merely the middle agent hired to do the dirty work.... Read More... Read More

Welfarism focuses on reforming the methods suppliers use to produce their products. Usually, the welfare reforms suggested by welfare organizations like PETA, Farm Sanctuary, and HSUS are reforms that are in the best long-term interests of the suppliers to implement anyway. But even in the very unusual cases where industry is uniformly opposed to reforms or the reforms are not in industry’s best interest (and the even more unusual cases where such reforms are actually implemented and enforced), industry is very resilient and can move to an easier jurisdiction or find other ways of getting around such reforms. Focusing on suppliers, as welfarism does, is hacking at the branches. Focusing on demand, as nonviolent vegan education does, is striking at the root.

Welfarists, new or traditional, both accept and promote violence toward innocent nonhuman beings by promoting, rather than entirely rejecting, the regulation and reform of animal exploitation and slaughter, either as a (false and confused) ‘step’ toward the elimination of animal use, or as a permanent method of exploitation. Abolitionists entirely reject the violence of all welfare reform, regardless of whether welfare reform is (falsely) perceived as ‘step’ toward something else or as a permanent method of exploitation.

Abolitionists promote veganism and only creative, nonviolent vegan education as a means to achieve widespread veganism. Abolitionism is the logical extension of the civil rights and peace movements. Nonviolence is an indispensable core principle of abolitionism. Creative, nonviolent vegan education is pro-social.

Veganism is pro-social, moderate, and peaceful. First, do no harm: Go vegan, and encourage others to go vegan. Welfarism and MDA are both harmful and counterproductive; avoid them.

From unpopular vegan essays
http://unpopularveganessays.blogspot.com/search?q=one+plate+at+a+time
For more information on the abolitionist approach
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com
Join us on Facebook http://www.facebook.com/livevegan
Join us on Twitter http://www.twitter.com/livevegan
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
108 19 Nov 2009
Welfarism isn't counterproductive though at all.

Which country is more likely to achieve a Bill of (Animal) Rights first; the UK or Egypt?

Whatever Gary Francione says, he cannot escape that fact.
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Jesse Jesse VIC Posts: 1117
109 19 Nov 2009
Unleashed Admin
This topic has come up a number of times on the forum. Much has already been said and so to save people having to re-type their opinions, or dig through the backlog of threads on this issue I've merged a few of the key threads where this was discussed. peace
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
110 19 Nov 2009
Jesse said:
This topic has come up a number of times on the forum. Much has already been said and so to save people having to re-type their opinions, or dig through the backlog of threads on this issue I've merged a few of the key threads where this was discussed. peace
woooooooooo
much easier
ty jesse happy
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