Abolitionist Veganism

Veganism is a boycott of Animal Products, as per the definition by Donald Watson.
The only reason I am vegan is to reduce suffering. I don't give a jot about inherrent rights, I don't believe such a thing exists, for people or animals.

However I consider myself (and the great Peter Singer, of course) an animal rigtst person, because I am campaigning for animal rights to be enshrined in law.

LiveVegan, I'm also interested in what approach you would use to promote veganism.
Personally the optimum way for me is to educate young people about the inevitable cruelty the results from animal use. Any discussion of obscure philosophical concepts seems to be irrelevant to the task at hand. You are going to have more success concentrating on the cruelty if you want to sway someone's point of view.

Good question, I'll share with you what I do as there's no animal rights strategy to align with here anymore that's for sure, so maybe some like minded people can swap ideas on what we can do to promote the rights of animals  to free them from human domination.

I am not interested in writing letters to politicians (joke). I have a hard drive full of them (five years worth). I'm sick of receiving formletters back from politicians that don't even read tailored letters with valid questions anymore. I've reasearched several codes of practice for animals (disgusting) so I'm well informed, but so what because politicians and the industry don't give a hoot.

Neither does any of this stuff work ... Visiting Minister for Animal Welfare's office semi-regularly, door knocking his constituents giving out DVDs of cruelty that goes on in this state asking them to write to him, dropping off personal letters to the Premier (in his city office), phoning politicians, turning up outside Minister for AW office on a 40 degree day in a horse suit on a busy main road with a sign that says honk to ban rodeo (opposite a police station) getting bus drivers, police cars! and every second or so car to honk doesn't make much difference. Walking around Glenelg in a horse suit handing out leaflets to lobby government. [NOTE: not with assistance with any AR group, just with a single friend]

What have I found makes a difference? Speaking to the public about things THEY can do. Getting them to understand and boycott, meat, zoos, rodeo (not much good if you're not in the country) and petshops. Telling the people who are looking at the cute puppies in the petshop about puppy mills and if they'd like a great dog, please rescue one about to die in the pound..

What else do I do now? Be a proud vegan who's not up myself. Do my best to make veganism attractive. When I'm in a supermarket and the stench of ham puts me off buying my veggies, I complain politely to other sympathetic looking shoppers without sounding angry, "gee, that smell of dead pigs is awful, poor little buggers, it's a terrible time of year for them (Christmas hams are out ... eyech)"

I tell the girl in the fruit and vegie shop how the smell of pigs in Coles sent me running in here and we start talking about vegetaranism and veganism. She asked me what books would I recommend her to look at as she's interested in vegetarianism." I went back with some info for her.

When I buy a sandwich and the girl making my sandwich says "did you say ham?" I say, "what? pig!? Oh no, I don't eat pigs! I love pigs!" I leave leaflets around in doctors surgeries and laundromats.

I have a website www.animalsadvoc8.info and am creating my own material on vegan eating to give people because there is no good literature here worth giving out :o(

People who promote animal rights do things as well as philosophise about it. And we will never sell the souls of animals *think*ing it's  going to make a difference, because I've been watching the landscape intently and am researching the issue closely and I know it is making it worse for animals. Why make people happy about eating animals when you can make those people unhappy for eating animals and therefore stop eating them fullstop? Why make them want to eat more. Give them the solution, not a bloody excuse to keep going!

I understand there are some people who don't care about animal rights (usually those who still eat and use animals) and want to see welfare reforms, and don't mind that when they say that's what they are doing. All forms are OK and some of the things I've mentioned aren't for every one, we have to do what we're comfortable with.

But when people say they are for animal rights (want to liberate animals from the human system) and are pushing for welfare reform, sorry, you're confused and need to do some reading so you know what you're doing, if you're too stubborn' to do that, you're beginning to look hypocritical to me.

I totally agree! Engaging with people about these issues and inspiring them to make compassionate choices for animals is one of the most essential pieces to the puzzle in achieving a better world for animals. Whether you also work for incremental change or not, this consumer change ultimately aids to pull the rug out from under cruel industries by reducing demand for cruel products.

Whether or not laws change, or animals are given rights, we need people in our society who are compassionate towards animals... so helping spark that compassion is vital work. This is why i see leafleting outreach as such a valuable tool for our movement. It doesn't take a big budget or a lot of time; anyone can do it and it offers the opportunity to directly engage with people and for them to ask questions.

Well done advoc8 it sounds like you are doing some great advoacy

So why exactly is the "Why Veagn?" no good?

Any appearance of hypocrisy must be in the eye of the beholder, because I'm not.
Because:

1) I believe welfare reform is a path to abolition;
even if it proves not to be:
2) I don't believe in inherrent rights, or any form of moral absolutism (which I find a little juvenile). To me any action which reduces the amount of pain in the world is a morally good act (with a caveat, that is too long winded to explain here). All abolition is to me is a tool to reduce suffering, nothing more.
It stands as just another tool, like welfare, in reducing the amount of pain in the world.

To call people hypocrites is a trifle strong, when surely you must understand that consequentialists see animal liberation not as an end in itself.

One of the complaints I hear by those who oppose animal welfare reform is that it is always  ineffective in bringing about animal liberation. There are so many ways where this is obviously wrong, but here is just one example:

1) Welfare can increase the costs for local producers
2) This can drive the industry overseas

Now, one of the problems with addressing the demand side of the equation (as promoted by  Francione and one of the two approaches that are used by Vegan Outreach) is that if an industry has a lot of financial power in a country, then they will have influence with politicians that can undermine demand-based campaigns.

Example: in the USA, when meat demand drops, the govt. buys up meat stocks to feed people in prison, hence keeping the price high to benefit the industry.

Now, if the industry is driven abroad by welfare costs, then demand side camapigns (by those promoting veganism) will end up more effective, as there won't be a local industry that will lobby government against the demand-side campaigns.

Therefore welfare can provide a polictical / economic climate where veganism education can flourish without opposition from the state.

I never thought of it this way. I always just thought that people looking on the demand side of the equation, hope to reach such a degree of public support that reaches a critical mass, where the power of lobby groups does not compare... unless a government wants to commit political suicide.

I never saw animal welfare reform as a tool to strike, in many ways, economic damage to industry... and not only that, but also as a helper for vegan outreach... like using it as a tool to prevent the contamination of lobby groups in politics (which, if the meat industry really thought their entire industry was under threat of going under, would have heapssssssssss of money to spend lobbying government).

I really need to do some critical thinking more often.  

Just wondering Roy, which acitivists/academics do you read most?

Hiya Matt,
To be honest I don't do that much reading anymore, but I can tell you what has influenced me in the past.

I did the first year of a philosophy degree when I was doing my degree in Physics & Electronics. I also hung around with political science students and left wing activists who gave me a good run down on marxism. Then I've read around religion & philosophy, and picked up stuff from podcasts.

I recommend reading Animal Liberation (of course), and do suggest listening to the opposing views (you can get Francione's ideas from listening to his podcasts or appearances on Vegan Freak radio), and since he is quoted religiously by people, there's actually no need to read his stuff - you'll get bored of hearing it 2nd hand before long.

For general philosophy you can't beat Bertrand Russell's "History of Western Philosophy." And although they are extremely dated I do like Russell's books that were writrten for the intelligent lay person. Perhaps too old now though.

It's worth reading Kark Marx's "Communist Manifesto". And then try to perhaps read an introduction to Karl Popper (don't actually try to read anything by Karl Popper himself! It's too academic), as he is one of the best critics of Marx. And don't forget to read George Orwell 1984 & Animal Farm. This will give you an intro to the good ideas behind marxism, and then what's bad about it.

The reason I bring up marxism is that I find a parallel between the zeal of leftwing socialist activists, and the eager Gary Francione abolitionists. In life, when something seems clear cut, or black and white, I suspect that I'm missing something. There's usually good and bad in most things. I'm sceptical when anyone comes across fanatical to me. Even animal rights people. The world *isn't* black and white. As much as we would like it to be.

I am listening to a podcast at the moment called "g'day world" by Cameron Riley (general politics & issues). It's not AR, but it has had Peter Singer on it.

Sorry I can't be more specific! Read around subjects, go off in tangents. And when something seems black and white... be sceptical!

P.S. Noam Chomsky.

thanks heaps for all the info, roy!

i'm about to order Animal Liberation and the Communist Manifesto.

and yeh - the tangent thing! i end up following articles all over the place sometimes! And even though they all don't directly relate to animal rights, most can be related.

thanks again!

When you argue about advocating for animals and what is best to say, it's not (or shouldn't be) about tagging yourself, it's about the animals...People need to think seriously about what they say and do 'on behalf' of animals (or ANYONE for that matter) and to reduce a very strong critique of dominant ways of thinking to being about marking their own identity rather than listening to it for what it is is a very immature and dangerous way to be.