I still have to wonder why individual topics of abolitionist veganism cannot exist in "Anything goes" as individual topics just as there are topics like "Peter Singer" or any other topic there.
This topic "Abolitionist veganism" and it's introduction sets up the whole discussion in askewed way. I would beg to differ strongly with the representation of incremental welfare saying it reduces suffering and is a means to an end of animal use. What we do not need is more "acceptable" ways of regulating and exploiting animals. It bolsters speciesism, keep animals in property status, helps industry and make "conscientious omnivores". We need to present veganism as it should be; a recognition of animals as persons and part of the moral community. Veganism is not only about "reducing suffering", it's about ending use. Veganism is not a "personal choice" or just about diet, and it's not about promoting "happy" meat or "cage free" eggs. Veganism is about ENDING animal use.
If Unleashed moderators are going to set up this topic, I would ask that they set up this as a *section* in the forum, just as "Anything Goes" is a section. If moderators do not wish to do that, then just allow individual posts within "Anything goes". What is the problem with that?
I will not be able to share individual abolitionist blogs when it's all contained in this one post. It's as problematic as putting it in the "philosophy" section. I would like to be able to share individual abolitionist blog posts and ask for discussion on them, which I cannot really do within this one post.
The introduction Unleashed moderators have in this one post "Abolitionist Veganism" is an askewed view of abolition and welfare. The statement about welfarism is very much from a new welfarist point of view and the statement about abolition, though not entirely inaccurate, is from a new welfarist point of view as well which presents it in biased way. It's description is certainly not how an abolitionist vegan would present it.
I'm not here because I "oppose cruelty"; I'm here to end animal use. I'm frustrated that this particular topic is treated as something which should not be openly discussed in a way that every other topic is discussed in "Anything Goes"
Hi Advoc8, yes, nothing surprises me anymore. The "movement" has become one which promotes "happy" meat. "Veganism" is almost irrelevant.
I'm not sure if you saw this link I tried to post twice but was moved to "Philosophy" - http://tl.gd/195lg I would invite anyone who thinks there is a coherent "movement" to view the links contained in this link.
This is ridiculous... it is one thing to move specific discussion of strategy to one topic, but to move EVERYTHING related to an abolitionist perspective into one topic is ridiculous and oppressive.
I agree with LiveVegan, how come there gets to be a Peter Singer topic, or a 'vent' topic or a 'i take rejectipon badly topic' or all of those things?
If unleashed acted consistently with all topics the way it does with anything mentioning aboliton, this forum would have all of about 5 topics.....
What exactly is this issue with allowing seperate topics?
There has been a lot of ground covered in discussing this issue on the forum. When it appears that the same arguments and counter arguments are arising we have done our best to draw together those discussions so that people don't have to repost their points.
Francis said:
I agree with LiveVegan, how come there gets to be a Peter Singer topic, or a 'vent' topic or a 'i take rejectipon badly topic' or all of those things?
There are a number of threads relating to abolitionism in the backlogs of this forum. In fact, I believe the 'Peter Singer' thread you refer to was started by you and relates to an abolitionist perspective on Singer.
This covers why ANIMAL WELFARE, HAPPY MEAT, all those "improvements" are NOT a viable solution to the roots of our problem. I have a great level of respect for vegetarians though please dont get me wrong.
This covers why ANIMAL WELFARE, HAPPY MEAT, all those "improvements" are NOT a viable solution to the roots of our problem. I have a great level of respect for vegetarians though please dont get me wrong.
Was this the 'Philosophy of Activism' thread?
Is this also a combination of the 'Peter Singer' thread?
Does this also now contain the post which Apple Scruff posted of Keith Mann's reflection?
This is ridiculously confusing!
Excuse me Unleashed, is there something wrong with discussing the abolition of animal use?
