Abolitionist Veganism

i haven't read the article yet but i just wanna say sometimes you have to ease people in, start slow, and you might have a chance of at least some effectiveness. if you go straight to vegan some people( i'de say most who eat meat ect) will not be open to it, its too extreme for them to open thier minds up/stomachs to all at once. we know vegan is best but vego/free range even is better than nothing and i'm starting to think if you can get people to make even a little change its better than no change. not everyone will go vegan, some will never go vegan, will not even consider it but they may buy less abusive/cruel meat, and thats better than what they may have been doing before

This has pretty much all been discussed before..

David, did you go vegan straight from vegetarian? If so, I applaud and admire you. But other people aren't so sure of themselves. If people had been pushing and pushing for me to go vegan four year ago, I firmly believe I would still be a stubborn meat eater. Easing into it was the only way to go or else I would have totally alienated myself from this lifestyle altogether.

I don't think I'll get into this much because I'm only just starting to read Francione's stuff & research but I'm sure Matt will have a few things to say.

Hi Kirrilly,

I absolutely agree with you that if people think they need to take steps to becoming vegan then they should. If they feel they need to transition through vegetarianism then so be it. But we should NEVER tell them that eating vegetarian or 'free range' or whatever is morally defensible; we should always be clear that veganism is the moral baseline and support our position with rational arguments. People who are interested WILL listen and will take steps towards veganism (some will go vegan right away!) - if vegetarianism is one of those steps, then so be it, but we should never be outrightly promoting vegetarianism. Gary sums it up well in the blog essay I linked to below: "Many people maintain that they did not go vegan sooner precisely because of the emphasis on the moral desirability of vegetarianism advocated by large animal organizations. Promoting vegetarianism actually impedes going vegan".
 
I actually like the Vegan-1-2-3 approach, where you eat  vegan for breakfast for a period of time (say a week or month), then you eat vegan for breakfast and lunch for a period of time, then include dinner for a period of time, and then you're vegan!

Gary has created a podcast in relation to this issue: http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/vegetarianism-as-a-gateway-to-veganism/

and a blog essay:
http://www.abolitionistapproach.com/some-comments-on-vegetarianism-as-a-gateway-to-veganism/

hahahhaaaaaaa!

I actually-probably-mostly agree with David's opinion here.

The only thing I would be careful of though, is the appropriateness of a article dissing vegetarianism as something  good on a forum specifically directed at youth, to some their first-point-of-call for info on animal advocacy and all that comes with it - veganism; various single-issues; animal rights; welfarism; incrementalism; new regulation; .... and yes, vegetarianism too.

I think what people believing in and following the Francione dogma must remember is that while people going vegetarian, or eating less meat, or excluding only specific animal products from their diet, while it being (very) far from living "cruelty-free", it is without a doubt something less cruel; it is an improvement. And my God, when you look the nature of agribusiness today, any improvement for the animals is something very significant and absolutely worth fighting for.

Definitely a fan of this!

I think it's a case of each to their own as whilst I spend of lot of time promoting veganism I recognise it's not for everyone, indeed  if someone had suggested I go vegan rather than vegetarian years ago, when I was first introduced to animal rights, I would have been put off by the whole thing.

1) It was just too hard for me
2) Cheese tasted just too damn good.

Instead I went vegetarian, and went vegan eventually many years later.

Francione's writing reeks too much of religious zeal for my tastes, a much more mature and considered approach is here:

http://www.veganoutreach.org/advocacy/meaningfullife.html

David,
(Or anyone in Melbourne  who thinks promoting Veganism is the way to go)

Please join me to give out "WHY VEGAN?" leaflets!
I'll be starting leafletting with "WHY VEGAN?" leaflets again next week!

This is the leaflet we will be using (although with "Why Vegan?" not "Why Veg?" on the cover):

http://whyveg.com/ref/

I'll be starting on Thursday, it's RMIT's open day, who can leaflet from 3pm until 8pm?
(25th Feb)

Yeah, ok. I see what you mean. I wouldn't ever promote "free range" meat eggs etc, or organic dairy or anything. But I hate the "vegan or nothing" attitude so I kind of have a knee-jerk reaction to it. But yeah, I agree that if you aren't vegan you should be working your way toward it, however slowly or whatever method that may be.

I'm with Kirrilly

Like what the others said - had I been told it's the vegan way or the high way... I highly doubt I would be where I am now.

Also for some youths, their parents struggle to cope with their vegetarianism... can you imagine how much harder it would be on these guys if they went vegan right from go? It wouldn't last very long.

I think we should push the "start vegetarian, go vegan" approach.

I have a friend who 2mths ago was omni. He came over for tea, was fed a vege meal, 1wk later he was a vegetarian (I think I may have suggested some light reading/viewing for him to look into). Speaking with him 3wks later he said veganism wasn't for him right now, but maybe in 12mths - who knows. This is a huge change to some peoples life and these things take time.

I think we can still, and should, push veganism ahead of vegetarianism.

We all know how easy veganism is, and how cruel vegetarianism is. So why wouldn't we push it?

Saying all of this though, we should still definitely encourage any step anyone takes, whether it be meat free mondays, eliminating out specific animals from their diet, vegetarianism etc.

I think pushing veganism, and pushing veganism as the sole option for people are two different things, both completely different.

--

On this subject though, is it just me, or have people noticed that PETA has been slipping the word 'vegan' more, as opposed to 'vegetarianism' in its various releases/literature/articles etc etc?