Abolitionist Veganism

I don't know if it's changed, I've seen 'vegan'used by Peta for ages. However (I think) they also sometimes used vegetarian to include getting rid of eggs and milk.

Kirrilly,
If your response was to my email (I think it was), this is kind of what I mean. Most people can't stand being told what to do!
What we should be doing isn't a question of what is morally right (or even morally consistant) , it is a question of what is *effective*.

Gary Francione, being a Jain,  comes from a religious point of view that would preclude any compromise, irrelevant of whether or not it is in the long term benefit of animals, as his morals would always be against any form of 'violence', (I believe the Jain position would be always against voluntary euthanasia for people, against any euthenasia of animals in severe, terminal pain).

My concern is what is effective. I don't want anyone to buy milk, eggs, meat etc. However, debating with the people around me at work, I know that they just will not change. A friend at work watched Earthlings and whilst I know he found it disturbing, he still didn't change his behaviour *at all*.

For people like him, I want there to be animal welfare legislation (like the recent law in California that outlawed the facial branding of cattle, a law opposed by Gary Francione), however I'll do most of my activism to promote veganism.

Early in a morning before work, I've been giving out Animals Australia's "Please Think before You Buy" to people on Collins Street in Melbourne. However, if I see someone under 25 coming along, I do a quick change over and slip them a "Why Vegan?": Young people are more likely to change and come over to our side, and they have more years of corpse munching ahead of them, unless we do something about it.

Target ones campainging, and preach to the convertible.

so i'm wondering, I am vegan so i totally agree with vegan but for the people who will never give up meat( well not at this time anyway) dairy, eggs etc is it good to try to get them to at least buy free range etc? to at least minimize the suffering?.........

i was trying to get some people who in no way will give up the goods to at least go this way......they all know i am vegan and what i support, but to me it at least gets them thinking, trying, being a little conscious and if they're gonna eat an egg/kill a chicken anyway maybe that chicken will at least get to run around outside till that day.....

but this forum is confusing me.... is that a bad thing?

If you care about reducing animal suffering, then you should always be supporting people who are prepared to make any and all changes that will help animals. That absolutely includes opting for free-range over factory-farmed -- whilst also making it known that the ultimate choice they can make is to reduce/replace/avoid animal products.

I believe anyone who is prepared to make -- what in their eyes is -- a selfless act for animals, should be encouraged and supported! Once they realise how easy it is to make changes like this they are more likely to be open to taking further steps along the path to cruelty-free living if they know they will be met with support and encouragement; not belittlement and alienation.

It's not an easy line to walk, but it's important to judge where people are 'at' -- and to ensure that for the animals' sakes, that we don't turn our backs on those who won't give up meat/dairy/eggs, but WOULD be willing to help us shut down the worst animal abusers of all -- the factory farms.

P.S. I also like the 1-2-3 method for new vegans. So simple

I think that this is actually confusing.

For example, most free range eggs ARE factory farmed.

And most 'free range' chickens ARE factory farmed.

It's not as simple as saying there's free range or factory farmed.  Products labelled free range can be, and often are, factory farmed.

No it's not a bad thing.
It's a complex moral topic. With things in favour of both sides of the discussion.

However, since  it's getting a bit tiresome seeing abolitionists repeatedly spamming links to Gary Francione's blog, I think the moderators may want to move this thread to the end of the 'abolitionist' thread.

Agreed.

Well said David. I agree completely Thank you for sharing this excellent piece. It's refreshing and important. I will have to read more of Francione's work.

David, I read something recently and I thought I would share it:

"I use an approach to vegan education that doesn't compromise on the moral message, and I urge all advocates to do so, just as human rights advocates don't compromise on the moral message. Anything less by us is perpetuating speciesism, and as speciesism is the cause of the violence, perpetuating it is not the answer. So when I talk to people, I make sure to talk about our moral obligation to animals . On the online forums especially, no matter what, you will encounter people who say you are "self righteous" etc at the very mention of the word vegan, and you just have to respond to those comments in a way that shows people you are not personally judging them, but rather taking issue with violence itself. With practice, in a very short time, I am improving and I see the results in the dialogues I have with people. I find it to be VERY EFFECTIVE to take an approach that comments on violence itself, almost in the abstract, rather than on what an individual is doing (every person is different of course, but I find in general that is a good start). Everyone of us claims we want peace and reject violence - so it is very effective way to get the necessary dialogue going, at least in my experience. I also remind people that I was not vegan for the entirety of my life (in my case I was non vegan for the vast majority of my life), and so who am I to judge ? I let them know that this is about peace and justice and ending violence. I find it works pretty well to keep the dialogue going. I never discuss single issues, or promote welfare reforms, I always discuss veganism and I find relating the issue to non-violence is the key to many people's heart.

Also, I find that many people are extremely defensive because they have been attacked by the pro-violence advocates who call them corpse munchers and what not, so we have to undo that damage, or  they have encountered other vegan advocates who compromise on the moral issue when discussing animal rights, and suggests "cutting down" and "happy" animal product alternatives as the right thing to do!

I find that people who have encountered that approach get overly defensive when presented with the simple truth that if you take animal rights seriously and if you want to help them at all, you go vegan, not just "cut down" on animal product consumption or use "happy animal" products. Those people, in my experience on forums, are the MOST defensive and MOST turned off to veganism, because someone has already come along and made it "easy" for them, and I take issue with advocates who compromise on the moral message because that is speciesist and also makes the job harder.

With regard to tabling, I have yet to encounter someone who accuses me of being condescending. If they even seem to be going in the direction that they feel judged, I am very quick to pick up on that and I usually manage to get past that very quickly by focusing on violence itself and moving on from there. I find tabling much more satisfying than online commentary, because "tone" etc can be so misconstrued in print, and you have no body language to let people know where you are coming from or to see their reactions to your words. Everyone is different, I am trying to become adept at "reading" people.

I love tabling for abolition. I have fantastic results on the street using abolitionist education, focusing on non-violence and never, ever, compromising on the moral issue. If it is done effectively, one get's respect and open people's minds. In my case, maybe I can relate to people better because I am a new vegan myself, and clearly remember what it was like to "love animals" and still use them, and be totally morally schizophrenic and utterly speciesist. So I relate to what is going on in people's minds when first told the truth - it hurts! I do hope I will only improve in my advocacy the longer I am vegan, and I will always try to remember my non-vegan, speciesist roots when talking to people about this, and stay humble. We must all remember that violence is the problem, and everyone wants peace and rejects violence, or claims they do. Let's talk to them about that. It works!"
EC has a podcast http://nzveganpodcast.blogspot.com/