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Cesar Millan kicks dogs!

Watch the video to see proof :(

31 - 40 of 155 posts   1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7  


Timothy Timothy QLD Posts: 465
31 15 Mar 2011
What a sicko i used to like this show!
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
32 15 Mar 2011
Kirrilly said:
Are you watching the same videos I am? It doesn't really matter what context it's in, he's still kicking a dog. I don't see how it's necessary. It's definitely a kick when the dog goes off-balance from it.
I don't see how spraying a dog with water is necessary either... but I suppose the extremists are more comfortable with it because they can blame the spray bottle not the person for inducing fear.

I don't kick my dogs, Cesar teaches this kick as a light tap or nudge to get the dogs attention from whatever it's fixated on infront of him. It's never painful.

Couldn't find any good episodes on you-tube his DVD is good , you should hire it out just to see what you think.

Like I said the evidence his techniques work are clear, he has 30 balanced content dogs, he's made dogs do things no trainer could do. Alot of people that turn to Cesar have tried trainer after trainer and had no luck until they used Cesars techniques.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
33 15 Mar 2011
Jaydin said:
"He never does anything to these dogs that naturally an alpha dog in a natural pack wouldn't do." - This assumes that an alpha dog, or the 'natural conduct' between animals, is beneficial for the animal. A lion kills its step children so the mother will enter heat and it can impregnate her. But I would not say that just because the step children are treated like this it is 'right' for us to treat them the same way..
We are talking about dog packs not Lions. Lions are not living a domesticated life with humans.
Therefore their natural conduct is irrelevent.
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Shonnie Shonnie VIC Posts: 237
34 15 Mar 2011
Kirrilly said:
And lifting a bulldog up by the skin of it's neck..? And the bit that starts at 4:48 of the linked video? This is disgusting!
That's scruffing a dog by the back of its head. It's not harmful. I don't agree with forcing it to the ground though by it's neck that is uncalled for.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
35 15 Mar 2011
Jaydin said:
In short, as vegans we see that animals should be given the same consideration as humans. If you had the job of rehabilitating a disobedient child, let's say he was severely down syndrome (this rules out being able to reason with him), would you use these same techniques on this child? Take some of your words and apply them to humans, i.e. "I would never endorse it if I thought was cruel or abusive. He is not booting into the 'kids' with aggression." "He had rehabilitated hundreds of fearful aggressive 'kids' to be balanced submissive 'kids'. Nothing has worked better with my 'kids' than Cesars techniques and my 'kids' are not afraid of me either, they are merely balanced 'kids' who know who their leader is.
Is your 'kid' a balanced 'kid' with no issues?"
To treat a dog, a totally different species with totally different needs to a human like a human is not what the dog needs. I don't at all agree in treating a dog in the same manner as a child.
For example separation anxiety, if a child is missing Mum or Dad, having a rational brain, it is possible to comfort the child and have them overcome their homesickness etc.
If you comfort a dog experiencing separation anxiety you nuture the anxious behaviour and it will continue. So, sorry I don't agree dogs should not be treated as humans.

Treating a dog like a human is what causes alot of these aggressive or fearful dogs to begin with.
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Kirrilly Kirrilly VIC Posts: 2092
36 15 Mar 2011
Shonnie said:
Kirrilly said:
And lifting a bulldog up by the skin of it's neck..? And the bit that starts at 4:48 of the linked video? This is disgusting!
That's scruffing a dog by the back of its head. It's not harmful. I don't agree with forcing it to the ground though by it's neck that is uncalled for.
It's harmful for adult dogs.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
37 15 Mar 2011
Kirrilly said:
Shonnie said:
Kirrilly said:
And lifting a bulldog up by the skin of it's neck..? And the bit that starts at 4:48 of the linked video? This is disgusting!
That's scruffing a dog by the back of its head. It's not harmful. I don't agree with forcing it to the ground though by it's neck that is uncalled for.
It's harmful for adult dogs.
Holding the dog on the ground untill it 'submits' is not painful merely restricting.. other trainers suggest tying a dog in the naughty corner for persisting bab behaviour.
This puts the dog in a calm submissive state, not an aggressive or fearful state.
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Kirrilly Kirrilly VIC Posts: 2092
38 15 Mar 2011
I'm sorry, I can't agree with you. There are plenty of ways to train a dog effectively without scaring the sh*t out of it or kicking it, so why does he need to do it? Is his way the only way?
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
39 15 Mar 2011
Kirrilly said:
I'm sorry, I can't agree with you. There are plenty of ways to train a dog effectively without scaring the sh*t out of it or kicking it, so why does he need to do it? Is his way the only way?
It's OK I can see how some people would disagree with it.
He doesn't hurt or injure these dogs though. Emotional issues don't eventuate either you would hear more of a bad rep from his actual clients. He's only been sued once and that's because a dog hurt its leg running on his treadmill. Pulled a muscle or something.

Seriously hire his DVD's from your local video store and give them a good watch, your mind might change.
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Jaydin Jaydin NSW Posts: 31
40 15 Mar 2011
wild child2 said:
Jaydin said:
"He never does anything to these dogs that naturally an alpha dog in a natural pack wouldn't do." - This assumes that an alpha dog, or the 'natural conduct' between animals, is beneficial for the animal. A lion kills its step children so the mother will enter heat and it can impregnate her. But I would not say that just because the step children are treated like this it is 'right' for us to treat them the same way..
We are talking about dog packs not Lions. Lions are not living a domesticated life with humans.
Therefore their natural conduct is irrelevent.
You missed the point of this argument. It was not to argue about the similarities between dogs and lions. Your argument was that humans could replicate the natural conduct between animals with no infringement of moral ground. Yet I showed this is not the case with some species. If you want to argue that the natural conduct between dogs is beneficial for those that are not the alpha dog, then you need to attempt to establish that.

If dogs are living a domesticated life with humans, then why is their natural conduct relevant?

wild child2 said:
Jaydin said:
In short, as vegans we see that animals should be given the same consideration as humans. If you had the job of rehabilitating a disobedient child, let's say he was severely down syndrome (this rules out being able to reason with him), would you use these same techniques on this child? Take some of your words and apply them to humans, i.e. "I would never endorse it if I thought was cruel or abusive. He is not booting into the 'kids' with aggression." "He had rehabilitated hundreds of fearful aggressive 'kids' to be balanced submissive 'kids'. Nothing has worked better with my 'kids' than Cesars techniques and my 'kids' are not afraid of me either, they are merely balanced 'kids' who know who their leader is.
Is your 'kid' a balanced 'kid' with no issues?"
To treat a dog, a totally different species with totally different needs to a human like a human is not what the dog needs. I don't at all agree in treating a dog in the same manner as a child.
For example separation anxiety, if a child is missing Mum or Dad, having a rational brain, it is possible to comfort the child and have them overcome their homesickness etc.
If you comfort a dog experiencing separation anxiety you nuture the anxious behaviour and it will continue. So, sorry I don't agree dogs should not be treated as humans.
I never once said that dogs should be treated the same as humans. I said they should be given equal consideration (of interests). Your example just reinforces this point, giving the dog and human equal consideration of interests. This applies to the current situation as follows:
We do not treat disobedient kids like Cesar Milan treats dogs, because while it may satisfy our immediate interests (turning them into obedient kids), it is against the interest of the child, and we recognise this. I'm arguing that treating a dog like Cesar Milan does is against the dogs interests.

Also interesting is you have not commented on the articles I provided.
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