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Cesar Millan kicks dogs!

Watch the video to see proof :(

41 - 50 of 155 posts   2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8  


wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
41 15 Mar 2011
Jaydin said:
wild child2 said:
Jaydin said:
"He never does anything to these dogs that naturally an alpha dog in a natural pack wouldn't do." - This assumes that an alpha dog, or the 'natural conduct' between animals, is beneficial for the animal. A lion kills its step children so the mother will enter heat and it can impregnate her. But I would not say that just because the step children are treated like this it is 'right' for us to treat them the same way..
We are talking about dog packs not Lions. Lions are not living a domesticated life with humans.
Therefore their natural conduct is irrelevent.
You missed the point of this argument. It was not to argue about the similarities between dogs and lions. Your argument was that humans could replicate the natural conduct between animals with no infringement of moral ground. Yet I showed this is not the case with some species. If you want to argue that the natural conduct between dogs is beneficial for those that are not the alpha dog, then you need to attempt to establish that.

If dogs are living a domesticated life with humans, then why is their natural conduct relevant?

wild child2 said:
Jaydin said:
In short, as vegans we see that animals should be given the same consideration as humans. If you had the job of rehabilitating a disobedient child, let's say he was severely down syndrome (this rules out being able to reason with him), would you use these same techniques on this child? Take some of your words and apply them to humans, i.e. "I would never endorse it if I thought was cruel or abusive. He is not booting into the 'kids' with aggression." "He had rehabilitated hundreds of fearful aggressive 'kids' to be balanced submissive 'kids'. Nothing has worked better with my 'kids' than Cesars techniques and my 'kids' are not afraid of me either, they are merely balanced 'kids' who know who their leader is.
Is your 'kid' a balanced 'kid' with no issues?"
To treat a dog, a totally different species with totally different needs to a human like a human is not what the dog needs. I don't at all agree in treating a dog in the same manner as a child.
For example separation anxiety, if a child is missing Mum or Dad, having a rational brain, it is possible to comfort the child and have them overcome their homesickness etc.
If you comfort a dog experiencing separation anxiety you nuture the anxious behaviour and it will continue. So, sorry I don't agree dogs should not be treated as humans.
I never once said that dogs should be treated the same as humans. I said they should be given equal consideration (of interests). Your example just reinforces this point, giving the dog and human equal consideration of interests. This applies to the current situation as follows:
We do not treat disobedient kids like Cesar Milan treats dogs, because while it may satisfy our immediate interests (turning them into obedient kids), it is against the interest of the child, and we recognise this. I'm arguing that treating a dog like Cesar Milan does is against the dogs interests.

Also interesting is you have not commented on the articles I provided.
Once again I don't see how spraying a dog with water which is what Steve Austin recommends or tying them up for bad behaviour is in tune with the dogs interests.

What is in the dogs interest is to trust a strong leader to keep them safe and provide what they need. Cesar provides this.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
42 15 Mar 2011
[/quote]

We do not treat disobedient kids like Cesar Milan treats dogs, because while it may satisfy our immediate interests (turning them into obedient kids), it is against the interest of the child, and we recognise this. I'm arguing that treating a dog like Cesar Milan does is against the dogs interests.
[/quote]

There are many ways to guide a child to be obedient & it is different for every child.
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Jacqui T Jacqui T NSW Posts: 796
43 15 Mar 2011
Okay just to be fair, Jaydin didn't say anything about Steve Austin, I did. They have not promoted him.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
44 15 Mar 2011
Hedwig said:
Okay just to be fair, Jaydin didn't say anything about Steve Austin, I did. They have not promoted him.
I know that was kinda directed at you lol I know you're watching happy

Look of course I am defending Cesar, my dogs are beautiful and balanced since I used his techniques, what better evidence do I personally need. They play nicely with other dogs at the dog park, walk nicely beside me on a leash, they listen when asked, play nicely with kids, they are not a lawsuit waiting to happen because I tell them when they are partaking in unwanted behaviour. Emotional issues are clear in dogs, they don't conceal them like people do, my dogs do not have emotional issues from being told No.

I am up at 5am every day to walk & train my dog and 2 rescues for an hour, then again after work which I doubt most people do. I put alot of effort into them and am not a cruel or aggressive owner. My dogs just know what is required of them.
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Jacqui T Jacqui T NSW Posts: 796
45 15 Mar 2011
Yeah Im watching but I clearly stated that I was done arguing. Stop trying to bring me back into this, we're going to butt heads continually.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
46 15 Mar 2011
Hedwig said:
Yeah Im watching but I clearly stated that I was done arguing. Stop trying to bring me back into this, we're going to butt heads continually.
I'm out. I don't want to argue either.
I have enough to worry about without trying to defend myself for being looked upon like an idiot for following Cesars techniques.

You try taking in abandoned head case dogs as an inexperienced young girl and then judge me.
We have done wonders for these dogs.
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Jaydin Jaydin NSW Posts: 31
47 15 Mar 2011
wild child2 said:
Once again I don't see how spraying a dog with water which is what Steve Austin recommends or tying them up for bad behaviour is in tune with the dogs interests.
I have not mentioned spraying dogs with water, Steve Austin, or tying up dogs once.

wild child2 said:
What is in the dogs interest is to trust a strong leader to keep them safe and provide what they need.
This is a completely unsubstantiated assertion. You need to argue for this, and if successful, will establish it. But you cannot just assume it from the start.

wild child2 said:
There are many ways to guide a child to be obedient & it is different for every child.
This reply is quite vague, and even though I do not suspect you condone it, I must ask, just to be sure: Do you think that one of the ways to guide a child to be obedient is to treat them as Cesar Milan treats dogs?


wild child2 said:
Look of course I am defending Cesar, my dogs are beautiful and balanced since I used his techniques, what better evidence do I personally need. They play nicely with other dogs at the dog park, walk nicely beside me on a leash, they listen when asked, play nicely with kids, they are not a lawsuit waiting to happen because I tell them when they are partaking in unwanted behaviour. Emotional issues are clear in dogs, they don't conceal them like people do, my dogs do not have emotional issues from being told No.
Since you have not yet supplied a definition of a 'balanced' dog, one can only assume that what you mean by a balanced dog is one acting like one of Cesar Milan's dogs. In which case I agree, your dogs are 'balanced.' But as the articles I provided show, many experts in dog training disagree with Milan's (and by extension, your) definition of 'balanced.'

I'm sorry but all the reasons you gave for a 'balanced' dog sound like the dog is acting in your interests, there is no indication you are acting in the dogs interests. You don't need to justify your techniques to us, yet you have offered your testimony as evidence in favour of the credibility of Cesar Milan and his methods. So your techniques will have to be assessed if they are going to be used as evidence.

Still no comment on the articles.
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
48 15 Mar 2011
Jaydin said:
wild child2 said:
Once again I don't see how spraying a dog with water which is what Steve Austin recommends or tying them up for bad behaviour is in tune with the dogs interests.
I have not mentioned spraying dogs with water, Steve Austin, or tying up dogs once.

wild child2 said:
What is in the dogs interest is to trust a strong leader to keep them safe and provide what they need.
This is a completely unsubstantiated assertion. You need to argue for this, and if successful, will establish it. But you cannot just assume it from the start.

wild child2 said:
There are many ways to guide a child to be obedient & it is different for every child.
This reply is quite vague, and even though I do not suspect you condone it, I must ask, just to be sure: Do you think that one of the ways to guide a child to be obedient is to treat them as Cesar Milan treats dogs?


wild child2 said:
Look of course I am defending Cesar, my dogs are beautiful and balanced since I used his techniques, what better evidence do I personally need. They play nicely with other dogs at the dog park, walk nicely beside me on a leash, they listen when asked, play nicely with kids, they are not a lawsuit waiting to happen because I tell them when they are partaking in unwanted behaviour. Emotional issues are clear in dogs, they don't conceal them like people do, my dogs do not have emotional issues from being told No.
Since you have not yet supplied a definition of a 'balanced' dog, one can only assume that what you mean by a balanced dog is one acting like one of Cesar Milan's dogs. In which case I agree, your dogs are 'balanced.' But as the articles I provided show, many experts in dog training disagree with Milan's (and by extension, your) definition of 'balanced.'

I'm sorry but all the reasons you gave for a 'balanced' dog sound like the dog is acting in your interests, there is no indication you are acting in the dogs interests. You don't need to justify your techniques to us, yet you have offered your testimony as evidence in favour of the credibility of Cesar Milan and his methods. So your techniques will have to be assessed if they are going to be used as evidence.

Still no comment on the articles.
You are clearly bored and I have better things to do.
Let's agree to disagree.
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Jaydin Jaydin NSW Posts: 31
49 15 Mar 2011
wild child2 said:
You are clearly bored and I have better things to do.
Let's agree to disagree.
I'm not bored, I'm concerned for your dog. But we can disagree. happy
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wild child2 wild child2 QLD Posts: 2638
50 15 Mar 2011
Jaydin,
by balanced I mean they are exercised well, so they do not have pent up energy coming out in negative ways.
They are not aggressive, they are not fearful or anxious. They do not try to dominate me or children etc.(which is important for a dog living with children) I provide my dogs with what they need as 'dogs'. They go to the dog park of an afternoon and have a huge run off leash too with other dogs, playing ball etc
They are happy dogs happy
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