organ donation | Animals Australia Unleashed

xMISSMONSTERx WA • Posts: 2582

21 4 Apr 2011

Akasha213 said:

xMISSMONSTERx said:

regardless of vegan or not, anyone who has consciously chosen NOT to be an organ doner, this next question is aimed at you.

Is your mum/dad/sister/brother/best friend etc a vegan? (probably not) Would you give your organs (or even life) if it would save theirs?
Organ donating is no different, your organs are going to go to someone who is loved and who would be missed dearly if they didn't get it. Everyone looks at the negatives and thinks "well what if a muderer gets it?" well, what if a poor little girl dies because of your selfishness?

When I'm dead, medicine can do whatever the hell they want with my body, I'd rather they harvested my organs/tested on my body rather than an animals. In life you spent your time saving lives, in death you can do the same. Organ donating is a selfless act, and there are things in place to stop certain people from being able to get certain organs, like overweight people (who won't stop eating terribly) or alcoholics etc.

This reply sounds very defensive and agressive.

I dont think I'm selfish. I've made a consious personal choice based on my life and beliefs. I just stated my reasons and didnt question anyone elses.

Plenty of people choose not to donate their organs for other personal reasons. Some people for religious reasons, some for finality. A friend lost her toddler and she's a supporter of organ donation. However she chose not to donate her daughters organs because it was too much for her to keep her dead child on life support for a further day. Do you think that's selfish?

Thats part of the thing isnt it. You could help a murder or you could help a little girl. Who knows.
If a little girl died it was because she was sick or injured. Maybe getting an organ could have helped save her but that's not WHY she died. And maybe donating an organ could have helped but I still cannot be the responsible person for her life without knowing what I'm responsible for.

As I said, I dont know what I'd do in a different situation than being dead and keeping alive an unknown person. However if it was someone close to me and I wasnt dead, I would be around to have help and hopefully influence the way they are.

It's no defensive or aggressive, it's how I feel about it. Every life is special. And no, it's no selfish that she turned the life support off. But if you're in a position to donate it, I don't see why you wouldn't.

+ 1

Jacqui T NSW • Posts: 796

22 4 Apr 2011

May I ask on something that I had on my post- would you have a grudge against a family member who eats meat for asking for an organ?

0

Nobody QLD • Posts: 593

23 4 Apr 2011

I understand both sides to this subject.
It must be terrible for those in the situation where a certain organ is desperately needed, only to be denied because of a lack of organ donors. Especially for innocent children. Just one person could save the lives of up to 10 people and improve the lives of dozens more.
But I totally understand the other side. Saving the life of a meat eater means more animal deaths and cruelty.
In the end I think it comes down to personal preference. It's your body, your organs, what you want done with them is your choice.

I've yet to decide whether to be an organ donor or not. Whenever I think about it, I go back and forth in my mind.
Did you know in some cases peoples lifestyles are changed completely by receiving an organ? It's believed that organs, such as the heart can actually store memories. It's known as cellular memory.
There's info about it here: http://hubpages.com/hub/Cellular-Memories-in-Organ-Transplant-Recipients

"Common quirks recorded have been changes in attitude, temperament, vocabulary, patience levels, philosophies, and tastes in food and music."

Imagine if your organs could turn omnivores into veg heads! broccoli

But even still, I remain undecided.

+ 4

Chewie NSW • Posts: 521

24 4 Apr 2011

PaulV said:

Chewie said:

Jaydin said:

I've never actually thought about this before, thank you for turning me onto this topic! I think a few people have missed the direction of the OP's question (or maybe I have, who knows), but I think the gist of it is this: by donating your organs, you save human lives. But seeing as vegans (and to a lesser extent vegetarians) are a tiny minority of the population, your organs have a very high probability of saving a meat eater. Assuming the meat eater has 20 years left to live after your organ donation (a conservative estimate), and that one vegan saves 40 animal lives a year (another conservative estimate), your organ donation essentially saves one human life, but contributes to ending 800 animals lives. Seeing as veganism holds that humans and animals are equal, that's essentially ending 799 lives (net).

Now I understand not everyone here sees morality as a numbers game, (i.e. consequentialism) but if the question is framed in a different light, the answer is still the same. Say that even after knowing (to an almost certain degree) that a person will kill 5 innocent people if saved, you still save them from death. A few days later, those 5 innocent people are murdered by this person you have saved. Surely to some degree you are partly responsible for the deaths that took place given the high probability to which you knew the intentions of that person? Surely you can't use the excuse that you think morality is about 'saving lives?'

Similarly, given the high probability that your organs will save meat eaters, surely you are partly responsible for the pain and suffering of those 800+ animals? The person you saved is contributing to a genocide of other species, one could not save Hitler or Stalin and say they were just 'saving lives.'

...

:-/

that is precisely my point. If you place the same value on an animals life as you do on a humans life, which I absolutely do then you are consequently killing a lot of animals. I would be heart broken if even one little ant was trodden on by someone I helped save. I dont harm ANYONE but the chance that it will happen is very high

What about children? Many animals may die if your children or potential children eat meat at some point in their lives, because you chose to have sex and reproduce. Humans are always going to contribute to some sort of suffering in their life, but that shouldnt stop us from doing good. I can guarantee youve killed many ants in your time, as well as eating all the food that many animals have been killed for in the process of land clearing, etc. We are always going to have a somewhat negative foot print, so why let your organs go to waste when they could save a mother, a child, a best friend? This is why I think the argument is silly.

0

PaulV NSW • Posts: 47

25 4 Apr 2011

Dark_Cherry said:

I understand both sides to this subject.
It must be terrible for those in the situation where a certain organ is desperately needed, only to be denied because of a lack of organ donors. Especially for innocent children. Just one person could save the lives of up to 10 people and improve the lives of dozens more.
But I totally understand the other side. Saving the life of a meat eater means more animal deaths and cruelty.
In the end I think it comes down to personal preference. It's your body, your organs, what you want done with them is your choice.

I've yet to decide whether to be an organ donor or not. Whenever I think about it, I go back and forth in my mind.
Did you know in some cases peoples lifestyles are changed completely by receiving an organ? It's believed that organs, such as the heart can actually store memories. It's known as cellular memory.
There's info about it here: http://hubpages.com/hub/Cellular-Memories-in-Organ-Transplant-Recipients

"Common quirks recorded have been changes in attitude, temperament, vocabulary, patience levels, philosophies, and tastes in food and music."

Imagine if your organs could turn omnivores into veg heads! broccoli

But even still, I remain undecided.

yes yes, i have read about that... very interesting point
thanks for adding more confusion to the issue for me :

0

PaulV NSW • Posts: 47

26 4 Apr 2011

Hedwig said:

May I ask on something that I had on my post- would you have a grudge against a family member who eats meat for asking for an organ?

all of my family are vegan happy

0

Chewie NSW • Posts: 521

27 4 Apr 2011

Jaydin said:

Chewie said:

...

:-/

I really hope you don't actually believe what you've written. Im sorry, but that sort of moral high ground, ridiculous argument is exactly why some people hate vegans.

Is my argument so ridiculous as to not need engaging? Who is taking the high ground when you won't even bother to attempt refuting my reasoning? Just because you asked, I don't subscribe to straightforward utilitarianism, so no, I don't believe the above conclusions, but what I am saying is those vegans/vegetarians who do subscribe to utilitarianism (and there are a lot), if following their ethical theory to it's conclusions must hold organ donations as immoral. Unless you'd like to bother to show otherwise.

Not being able to create a thorough response because I'm on a painfully slow mobile, as well as being at work, is hardly taking the moral highground.

0

Chewie NSW • Posts: 521

28 4 Apr 2011

Hedwig said:

PaulV said:

Chewie said:

Jaydin said:

I've never actually thought about this before, thank you for turning me onto this topic! I think a few people have missed the direction of the OP's question (or maybe I have, who knows), but I think the gist of it is this: by donating your organs, you save human lives. But seeing as vegans (and to a lesser extent vegetarians) are a tiny minority of the population, your organs have a very high probability of saving a meat eater. Assuming the meat eater has 20 years left to live after your organ donation (a conservative estimate), and that one vegan saves 40 animal lives a year (another conservative estimate), your organ donation essentially saves one human life, but contributes to ending 800 animals lives. Seeing as veganism holds that humans and animals are equal, that's essentially ending 799 lives (net).

Now I understand not everyone here sees morality as a numbers game, (i.e. consequentialism) but if the question is framed in a different light, the answer is still the same. Say that even after knowing (to an almost certain degree) that a person will kill 5 innocent people if saved, you still save them from death. A few days later, those 5 innocent people are murdered by this person you have saved. Surely to some degree you are partly responsible for the deaths that took place given the high probability to which you knew the intentions of that person? Surely you can't use the excuse that you think morality is about 'saving lives?'

Similarly, given the high probability that your organs will save meat eaters, surely you are partly responsible for the pain and suffering of those 800+ animals? The person you saved is contributing to a genocide of other species, one could not save Hitler or Stalin and say they were just 'saving lives.'

...

:-/

that is precisely my point. If you place the same value on an animals life as you do on a humans life, which I absolutely do then you are consequently killing a lot of animals. I would be heart broken if even one little ant was trodden on by someone I helped save. I dont harm ANYONE but the chance that it will happen is very high

This is a vicious cycle and it wont end- no matter what human, vegan or not, you are hurting something. And no vegan is 100% cruelty free but you can do your absolute best. I find your opinion can be argued with the butterfly effect. But in my personal opinion, if I see someone collapse on a street I wouldn't think twice before trying to save them. If they survive, yeah they're going to be negative to the world, human existence has a negative influence on the world but we all bring a positive. So lets say the person on the road is a meat eater- they kill animals to survive. But what if they're also a surgeon? They're saving lives. You just have to sum up the balance and see if the postive outweighs the negative.

I can't say that I don't care where my organs will go- I mean, I don't want them wasted on someone who binge drinks, gives up to get the surgery and then starts again with this new kidney. But I don't have that choice, and morally I can not judge a person for their lifestyle choice. They are still a life, they may have a family who adores them and in some miniscule way, they are a positive influence on someone elses life. I will donate my organs and hope the person is thankful for what they get.

competely agree with you hedwig!

0

PaulV NSW • Posts: 47

29 4 Apr 2011

pfd said:

As a vegan I try to live a cruelty-free life, and that extends to all species, omnivores included.

There's just no room for *hate* of any kind, and it saddens me that some people are so extreme in their beliefs that they think it's ok to do so.

Education is the key.

i dont think not allowing people to harm animals through your actions in any way is about 'hate'. It like not helping a murderer murder. the not donating does not cause the death, that has been caused for another reason and more often than not the cause of the organ failure is the eating of animals in the first place.

0

Chewie NSW • Posts: 521

30 4 Apr 2011

PaulV said:

pfd said:

As a vegan I try to live a cruelty-free life, and that extends to all species, omnivores included.

There's just no room for *hate* of any kind, and it saddens me that some people are so extreme in their beliefs that they think it's ok to do so.

Education is the key.

i dont think not allowing people to harm animals through your actions in any way is about 'hate'. It like not helping a murderer murder. the not donating does not cause the death, that has been caused for another reason and more often than not the cause of the organ failure is the eating of animals in the first place.

It is hateful and extreme. More often than not? Care to offer some proof of that? ive worked with many sick children and their need for organ donations has not been from them eating animals. The eating animals does not directly cause death either; the death is caused by industry workers. Me not eating animals doesnt mean im saving their lives.

By your logic you might as well refrain from having children, and living too. Just because someone eats meat (and may become vegan later on, it took me 22 years) does not mean theyre a murderer, a bad person, or deserve to die.

+ 2