A Query.

I basically only eat pasta. Pasta pasta pasta pasta. Or i just have toast for dinner. I have been doing my best to have things that don't have dairy in it. My shampoos, conditioner, and shower gel are all animal friendly. And my make up is too. Im doing as best I can (i believe) given my situation. As soon as i start working again, ill have no problem being able to buy vegan foods that's all good. I just think your forgetting that, your attacking people who are initially on your side, we all have the same (or similar) beliefs. Your anger shouldnt be directed towards people who are doing the best they can, or what they can to help animals. Cutting back on things, stopping completely, telling others of what goes on with all the industries- is better than nothing, i believe. A little is better than none. Every person on here is aware of what happens, and that's better than nothing. People need to start praising the good that people are doing, and not just pointing at the negative and getting mad at what they COULD or SHOULD be doing.. This is a FRIENDLY forum- not for people to have a go at others just because they're vegetarian. It's a big deal for some people, even if it's not for you. Your entitled to your opinion, but it could be worded in a less agro and rude way. As I said, we're all here for the same reason. We're not your enemies.

I'm a lovely person though, really !

I know! For sure. I'm not directing this at anyone, that is the thing and especially not at you. My friends that are vegos just liiiiive off absolute crap and everything is smothered in dairy. Vegos may think they are doing good by cutting out meat from their diets, yet double their intake of cheese, chocolate and any other dairy products. I don't get it?
Hence me me posting about this has come out in an 'agro' tone, once again- not directing this at anyone but simply just posting in a forum to see what other vegetarians may think of this and see what they do.
I think we've established that vegetarians generally do more harm when they go vego than what they dont, is all i'm saying.

a vego that eats more dairy than they usually do, yes.. but a vegetarian that decreases, or eats the same amount of dairy.. no.. i eat cheese once every few weeks- if that, and have always only eaten it that much.. don't like chocolate, and never have so thats not a problem, and drink the same amount of milk from what i believe.. i agree that if someone ups their intake of dairy that theyre doing just amount, or more harm. but to stereotype 'vegetarians' in general of doing more harm, is a bit harsh- because some are actually pretty good with dairy products and all that.. it's not all that increase their amounts of dairy..

And i dont know who 'we' is when you say "i think we've established vegetarians do more harm" .. im not sure who you mean by 'we' because i sure didnt say that.. and i dont know who agree's with you, and who doesn't.. it's a personal opinion, not a statistic.. and your opinion doesn't neceserally have to be right.. it's not a proven statistic, merely just your opinion

I'm not going to pretend to read all that.

Don't they just keep the cow in pregnancy.. take the calf away 3 weeks after, mostly kill it if it is male and useless in that industry, or pass it on to the meat factory? I.e. beef farms.


But yeah.. 'Eating more of something different' doesn't make much sense to me, I took milk out of my diet which was a pretty, huge...portion.
And replaced it with rice and oat milk, after I started to find soy really crud and sickening.


But I mean, it only replaces the utility of milk, you have to find other ways to gain nutrients, and can't pin it down to one thing. Is why I think the Vegan diet works best (diet I say purposefully in this sense).. as you are forced.. to find those alternatives.. lots of nuts and beans and lentils. And as you tend to find all the good stuff at a similar time.. in patches like discovering a wad of new bands; if you're half asses about your morals... or taking on vege for a moral stance... then living off the other half of the same coin..isn't that great. but if you just really like milk... who cares. just don't go on about how bad meat is and how great milk is and you're fine. But still, making it a rule to avoid animal, makes finding the nutrients easier I think, instead of going the long way off it, and 'weening yourself' mainly for a long time out of laziness (esp. if vege is a moral thing, eventually.. moving on from dairy is expected)

I just try and get by living on food.. with out having to analyze it as much as possible..or the energy is wasted on a cycle of thinking about eating.. so i'm never going to be guilt tripping anyone.. Other wise you could just say "it isn't really cool to be breast fed in your 30s, or skimming the fat off and saving it for later, and to get moldy"... but I mean, it comes down to educating people separated from the place where food comes from.. only seeing it in a picture book that becomes more graphic over their life.

And someone forgets to mention HOW cows keep giving milk, most people probably just assume a cow just has an endless supply of milk for no apparent reason.. or that it thinks suction cups are a really immature calf they have been raising for their 10-15 year productive life.

Like she said, she's not directing this at any one in particular, you might be doing a truly fantastic job being vegetarian. We are speaking very generally, true, but if the generalisations aren't comparable to you, then you've got nothing to worry about. It's just an observation we (and a lot of other people) have made that is completely juxtaposed to the reasoning behind most people's choice to be vegetarian.

Surely you can get your point across without reverting to name calling. Please respect the house rules (http://www.unleashed.org.au/community/forum/topic.php?t=17). Thanks

Like I said, it's more about informing. Not finger pointing. It warms my heart and soul to know that information I am putting out there is making a difference, and if it is baby steps then I am fine with that, it gets the ball rolling.

I agree totally with ^^ here.. And i also believe that it's not for everyone to make a huge jump to vegan.. It will  be a long transition for me to cut out all animal products.. Im proud of what ive done so far, and Im not going to worry about people calling me a pussy.