A Query.

I agree with a lot you've said, i don't think people should deface plants, a life is a life and it's beauty shouldn't be ruined for fun or greed. However the separation between plants and animal is very important for veganism, considering if plants are sentient beings and feel pain then there is no difference between eating/killing them and an animal.

Knowing that animals are sentient we know some of the pain and emotions they feel because it's similar to ourselves. With animals, more then being able to physically see pain and accept animals are sentient we know they have the receptors to actually feel pain and respond more then just auditory. The prospect that plants could emotionally feel pain and be sentient being is a very daunting thought for a vegan and if that's proven then i couldn't be sure if there is any point to veganism.

Ever held your hand over a tree that has had a branch cut off. Right over the spot where the branch was. Okay, it may just be an adjustment as the tree is now rearranging atom's that were there a few moments ago and now no longer. But the vibrations that come off that tree is like something I have never felt. It is buzzing, like it is electric, that to me is more then enough proof that the tree feels it. Also, you can see (if you look closely) a major change in energy around the tree. I can usually see a tree has been recently trimmed without even getting close to it.

I got to being a raw vegan because I considered other people's opinion's. I researched, found out the truth, put my own comfort aside and did the right thing. I've been vegetarian before, felt bad for being a hypocrite and changed accordingly. You will never sway anyone advocating something that is so clearly contradictory. And when someone holds a belief like that, it's very hard to respect it. We may be more outspoken than some, but I bet those people who were tough on you for what you ate got through to you even a little bit. Sitting someone down and telling them they're doing a good job when they're not is just stupid, and we, as animal rights advocates should be past that. Society as a collective has been told they're doing the right thing. Media, and all it's glorified falsehoods tells them they're doing the right thing. Their parents, peers and friends tell them they're doing the right thing. Only the person who says otherwise is going to make them reflect upon their beliefs, and only upon reflection will they know whether they are right in believing what they believe. Only then. Tough love works. If there's one thing I've learnt from my psychological studies it's that people look for confirmation that they're doing the right thing, even if they're wrong. It's normal to look for gratification, so we can feel better about ourselves and where we are at, but if we get to comfortable, we become stagnant. I wouldn't wish that upon anyone, so in turn I don't give gratification unduly.

I think you have in your head, this idea of people molestoring everything in utter disregard.

Most of the suffering that comes towards anything is when humans LIKE the thing..
or it just goes unnoticed.

I want those horns... I want those flowers.. I want that fruit.. i want some shiny shit (probably literally, highly solidified and compacted) from deep under that ground.. i.e. your home, that forest, those lives, this earth.. you can move over there though, I allocate you a space, ontop of that rich.. agricultural soil, to build your city of the lost, to sell the stuff I want to share with you.. my loves


~

Might seem.. obscure.. but probably more to the point.

I do understand the difference, I think he just eggs me on.
I appreciate what you've said, I think I needed to hear that tonight too.

Yes but those are auditory responses like triggers, feeling pain indicates that the being is aware of it's self and sentient. If plants are sentient then there is no difference between killing them and animals in terms of ethics, we know animals are sentient because of the central systems and sensory receptors they posses. Plants lack those and without any other evidence we can only conclude they aren't sentient at this point in time. An auditory trigger just means that it's an effect that naturally happens based on stimuli without thought, internal reasoning or any type of emotionally response like pulling the trigger of a weapon or pushing of a button. To accept plants "feel" and are sentient just like animal counterparts, bears no ethical reason to being vegan.

No offense, but generally speaking I can tell if trees have been trimmed from miles away too.

hmmm maybe it could be the pins and needles of putting your hand over a fresh wooden wound. And if a tree happens to start growing on an embankment, or from an odd positioned seed... it can lose branches from not growing proportionately correct, or topple over, as its kind is used to flat land.. and some bastard bird has taken it else where.

I am not totally against people who prune trees.. but you have to value your own life to some extent.. otherwise... you're doing the most damage.(waste)

that said.. in relation to not eating anything, without acute awareness or consciousness of its pain. doesn't reflect much satisfaction or gratefulness I wouldn't think. unless it is in a calm manner of appreciation. i'm glad you mentioned plants having an invaluable quality, not just animals.. changing the focus is always nice for both parties.

Oh yeah, I don't really think plants have rational thought. Otherwise I probably would just starve.

But you never know.

I think i took the word "feel" differently then you intended, i took it as a sentient feeling/perception when you probably meant it as some type of reaction.

Personally I think it more likely for them to hold a capacity of thought (like references of treesdream//universe).. than holding the ability to relate to pain.


you might like these infos:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pando_%28tree%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ancient_Bristlecone_Pine_Forest