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Dilemma - uni course

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Rainbow Fox Rainbow Fox QLD Posts: 91
1 8 May 2009
Here is my super duper dilemma.

Last year I was studying Pharmacy at university but I dropped out because I just felt so terrible about the medical testing on animals that still goes on  sad
However I have now realised that I really want to go back and finish the course because I want to STOP medical testing on animals. I want to be able to help practically to utilise animal testing alternatives.
I don't have to physically do any animal tests in the course because we are meant to be helping humans not animals. So we don't have to cut them up or anything horrid. HOWEVER it still just eats away at me that most major drug companies are using animal testing.

I was just wanting some opinion on wether it is ethical I guess...

Also anyone else studying or doing anything that they might have some ethical issues with>?<
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Nathanael Nathanael VIC Posts: 211
2 8 May 2009
Definetely can see how that level of dissonance can be painful. I'd say, kind of like becoming a doctor or dentist etc., even if the process of doing the course, or partaking in the industry may be to an extent harmful to animals, the amount you can minimize the harm by once you finish is probably worth it. Harm minimization, entirely. Oh and the idea of having a vegan/vegetarian (friendly) pharmacist rules!
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Rainbow Fox Rainbow Fox QLD Posts: 91
3 9 May 2009
Nathanael said:
Oh and the idea of having a vegan/vegetarian (friendly) pharmacist rules!
happy

I know it would be super great. Especially if there were some more vegan medications on offer in pharmacies. One of my lecturers told me about a vegan who came into her pharmacy to get Pnemonia medication, but he refused to take it because it was only in capsule form. So therefore it had geletin in it.

He got really angry and so did she. There should definitley be some medications without animal bits and bobs in them, or ones that aren't tested on animals... That way next time I get super sick I won't feel horribly terrible about supporting some giant company who kills heaps of lab animals a year for medicine...
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Nathanael Nathanael VIC Posts: 211
4 10 May 2009
Yeah, and not to make it any worse, the mega-pharma companies are f**king heinous regardless of the way they treat animals. My understanding only comes from having a GP for a mum, but would you be able to make off-patent vegan(eg. gelatin free) friendly medication and sell it, almost like your own line of vegan drugs!
(Irrelevant sidenote, apparently speed and cocaine are often cut with lactose in australia, gross!)
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ABC ABC NSW Posts: 69
5 10 May 2009
Rainbow Fox said:
One of my lecturers told me about a vegan who came into her pharmacy to get Pnemonia medication, but he refused to take it because it was only in capsule form. So therefore it had geletin in it.

He got really angry and so did she. There should definitley be some medications without animal bits and bobs in them, or ones that aren't tested on animals... That way next time I get super sick I won't feel horribly terrible about supporting some giant company who kills heaps of lab animals a year for medicine...
I had a prescription for caprylic acid last year and had to get it made up by a compounding chemist. When I found out they were going to put it in capsules, I ordered some vege capsules and got them to use those instead. Not all chemists would agree to that though.

I think do your course because it's what you want to do. Hopefully in the future more medications won't be tested on animals and more will be labelled cruelty free/vegan.

I started Agricultural Science at uni and then quit to go back to work, and I often wonder if I'd have gone vegan while doing that degree. Glad I quit wink
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.ellehcoR .ellehcoR VIC Posts: 663
6 14 May 2009
I guess this can also closely relate to a Veterinary science course.

Its fair to presume that a few youngin's on here (including myself actually) are interested in Veterinary sciences as a uni course.
The problem is that a lot of the course involves using animals that were bred especially to die for schooling. I heard that Melbourne uni uses greyhounds donated by the greyhound racing association as well as from other places.

The question is, can all the testing in uni courses be "made up for" by the hundreds, if not, thousands of lives saved when they graduate and become a vet?

I guess that if youre studying to become a vet, you HAVE to do so.
However I am completely against dissections in high school. The majority of people in the class would probably not proceed with biology so the lives of the animals bred have just been wasted. When we did rat dissections in yr9, allooottt of the class was abusing the privalege.
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_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
7 15 May 2009
.ellehcoR said:
The question is, can all the testing in uni courses be "made up for" by the hundreds, if not, thousands of lives saved when they graduate and become a vet?
I think that's a really good question. One of the reasons for me going vegan was because I realised that I had no right to "play god;" by choosing who lives and who dies. So obviosuly, I disagree with animals being bred to die for uni/high school courses.

I think this is a really good and interesting question.. what does everyone else think about it?

peace
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Rainbow Fox Rainbow Fox QLD Posts: 91
8 15 May 2009
For Vet Scince at University of Queensland I know that a lot of the dogs and cats that are killed for education are going to be killed anyway.
Explanation :
They have a bit of a kennel adoption thing going on on campus, and the students get to help the strays that are brought in by sorting out their behaviour problems and getting them vet treatment. However if the animal is too sick - it is euthanised, if it has behavioural issues - it HAS to be euthanised (even the RSPCA does this), and if just no one will adopt it and after a ridiculous amount of time of the animal just being kept in a cage they decide it isn't good for the animals welfare... so they euthanise it.

So a lot of the animals are euthanised not just purely for education. They are being euthanised anyways just because the uni has done 'all that it could' to try and help the animal and it just isn't working.

Someone doing the vet course there told me this. I guess it is some sort of consolation, not just being bred to die, but trying to get them loving homes... but most people like buying new puppies... not adopting grown dogs. So it sucks.

Also the University of Queensland Gatton gets all their rats for dissection from labs where the animals have been killed after they are finished experimenting on them (which is sick). But the up side of this is you don't have a lab killing 50 rats, throwing them in a bin, then the uni raising and killing 50 rats for dissections... I suppose you would only kill 50 the first way...
It is a really touchy subject... I hate the justification of these killings as education but it is good to see that some of these estabilishments are at least trying to do things right...

Just some fun facts about UQ - I go there so I question them angrily and frequently on these sorts of things...
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Caroline3 Caroline3 New Zealand Posts: 2
9 5 Feb 2011
It is now February 2011 and I wonder what you decided to do Rainbow Fox?  Your last posting suggests to me you were beginning to make excuses...  If what I say could influence you, it is probably too late now anyway.

.ellehcoR said this  "The question is, can all the testing in uni courses be "made up for" by the hundreds, if not, thousands of lives saved when they graduate and become a vet?"

Your last posting suggests you welcomed this question as a way of excusing what you may be asked to do. There is really only one answer to .ellehcoR's question and it can't be answered because all the victims in uni courses are unable to reply.

It really doesn't matter what reasons we make to excuse the pain we will inflict on an animal; the animal is unable to speak in its own defense and is helpless to influence us, but given the fact that it will indeed suffer and die, what do you think it would say, if it could speak?

I hope you are achieving your dreams without compromising your values.
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ZoolNerd ZoolNerd NSW Posts: 1005
10 6 Feb 2011
I know this was old but I sorta have to do the same thing with comprimising my values. Im studying a Bachelor of Zoology but thankfully its by distance education. Twice a year I do have to go to the uni and I KNOW that I will have to do lots of Dissections. Im going to try my hardest to get out of it and my reasoning is If I could pass with flying colours at the end without having to dissect anything then it proves you don't need to do it.

As somebody said, It would be GREAT to have a pharmacist who is understand and caters to veg*n needs. I once had a pharmacist TRY and tell me how our bodies NEED LACTOSE and cant live without cows milk and the receptionist ROLLED her eyes at me when I explained I didnt want gelatine or fish in my vitamins. How rude!

I never went back there again.
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