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Animals Australia clarification

Animal welfare or more

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Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
11 10 Nov 2011
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Karen said:
Hey Cassie3!

First of all, you are absolutely, positively, definitely *not* the only omni here. There are lots of you! And you are all welcome happy

xMISSMONSTERx said:
It's an organisation for taking a stand against animal cruelty.
MissMonster has it pretty much right. Animals Australia is an animal protection organisation whose "goal is to significantly and permanently improve the welfare of all animals in Australia."

Unleashed (http://www.unleashed.org.au) is the youth arm of Animals Australia (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/).

We recognise that vegetarians and vegans only make up a very small precent of the population right now. So, if our organisation was only for these people then we'd be cutting out a massive chunk of the population who also care about animals and can have a big impact on their lives.

A lot of the campaigns we run relate to farmed animals because they represent the largest number of animals who are suffering routine abuse in this country with very few laws to protect them from harm. It is true that the ultimate way you can help protect these animals in your daily life is simply not to eat them - but other people choose to reduce the amount of animal products they eat, while others choose to buy higher welfare products (like organic). All of these choices add up to create significant change for animals. And Animals Australia and Unleashed are here to support and encourage everyone who wants to make changes in their lives - no matter how big or small - that can have a positive impact for animals.

But harping on about what we eat is not the only way we campaign to help animals. There are other campaigns that don't relate to eating choices at all - like fur, animal testing, dog and cat euthanasia, dolphin hunting, live export, etc. Cruelty is cruelty and in some cases it doesn't matter if you're vegetarian or not - you can still make a difference for animals.

That's what we're all about. I hope that clears it up! And I hope you'll stick around happy
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
While some farmers may care about the welfare of their products not all do. I think it's generally accepted that beef production has a lot fewer welfare problems than for other animals. I'd love to know your take on intensive production of chickens and pigs. A lot of my issues lie with the fact that these animals are slaughtered needlessly in our society and that abbatoir conditions are awful(have family that has worked in one, have tried to set up a visits but not been allowed anywhere near), not just for the animals but for the people working there too. The bottom line is that no matter how well an animal is treated while they're growing they're still going to be killed with no regard, and since the goal is to get as many animals processed as quickly as possible there will no doubt be little care for the welfare of the animals. They're just going to end up dead anyway right.

EDIT: This is entirely my personal view based on my own experience and research and in no way reflects animals australia.
I really don't like the use of the word 'some' in your opening sentence....  It should read 'while some farmers don't take care of their animals most do'... then we maybe on the same page. While some people don't take care of their children most do, while some people don't take care of their workmates most do, while some people don't take care of their pets most do and so forth.  On the whole most people are good.  There are rotten eggs in every walk of life, the farming industry is no exception. Enough of that.   I am not at all keen on factory farming of any sort.  I have yet to take a proactive road on this objection though as I still eat pork and chicken on rare occasions. Now lets get one thing straight people will eat meat forever more.  The question should be how is AA going to work with that.  Cheers
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Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
12 10 Nov 2011
OinkMoo said:
Cassie3 said:
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
I can see where your coming from Cassie3, my dad runs a beef production farm, althought its no where near as many head of cattle as you, he still runs them on large acerage, makes sure they are in top condition, vaccination, worming ect are all up-to-date. I really appreciate when farmers farm aniamls in open, free and caring conditions. I hate the idea of people making money off slaughtering animals, but fact is the world wont turn vegan or vegetarian and since there will always be a market for meat we should support the farmers who actually take animal welfare seriously. Dont get me wrong, i dont approve of slaughtering innocent animals, ive personally witnessed the abuse in slaughterhouses and home slaughter jobs and its descusting, horrific and depressing. If you dont mind me asking what do you do with your goats? happy
No I don't mind you asking at all.  The goats are also sent to meat works for slaughter.  Goat meat is the most consumed meat in the world.  Mind you I have a devine little black critter of a goat living in my garden, being fed three times a day. She keeps me most amused. You are quite right the world will never turn to a vegan lifestyle en masse and the best that AA can hope to achieve is the marketing of meat that has been produced with the best welfare for the animal. My beef producing friends would concur believe me.  We are not all monsters.
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Catyren Catyren WA Posts: 542
13 10 Nov 2011
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Karen said:
Hey Cassie3!

First of all, you are absolutely, positively, definitely *not* the only omni here. There are lots of you! And you are all welcome happy

xMISSMONSTERx said:
It's an organisation for taking a stand against animal cruelty.
MissMonster has it pretty much right. Animals Australia is an animal protection organisation whose "goal is to significantly and permanently improve the welfare of all animals in Australia."

Unleashed (http://www.unleashed.org.au) is the youth arm of Animals Australia (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/).

We recognise that vegetarians and vegans only make up a very small precent of the population right now. So, if our organisation was only for these people then we'd be cutting out a massive chunk of the population who also care about animals and can have a big impact on their lives.

A lot of the campaigns we run relate to farmed animals because they represent the largest number of animals who are suffering routine abuse in this country with very few laws to protect them from harm. It is true that the ultimate way you can help protect these animals in your daily life is simply not to eat them - but other people choose to reduce the amount of animal products they eat, while others choose to buy higher welfare products (like organic). All of these choices add up to create significant change for animals. And Animals Australia and Unleashed are here to support and encourage everyone who wants to make changes in their lives - no matter how big or small - that can have a positive impact for animals.

But harping on about what we eat is not the only way we campaign to help animals. There are other campaigns that don't relate to eating choices at all - like fur, animal testing, dog and cat euthanasia, dolphin hunting, live export, etc. Cruelty is cruelty and in some cases it doesn't matter if you're vegetarian or not - you can still make a difference for animals.

That's what we're all about. I hope that clears it up! And I hope you'll stick around happy
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
While some farmers may care about the welfare of their products not all do. I think it's generally accepted that beef production has a lot fewer welfare problems than for other animals. I'd love to know your take on intensive production of chickens and pigs. A lot of my issues lie with the fact that these animals are slaughtered needlessly in our society and that abbatoir conditions are awful(have family that has worked in one, have tried to set up a visits but not been allowed anywhere near), not just for the animals but for the people working there too. The bottom line is that no matter how well an animal is treated while they're growing they're still going to be killed with no regard, and since the goal is to get as many animals processed as quickly as possible there will no doubt be little care for the welfare of the animals. They're just going to end up dead anyway right.

EDIT: This is entirely my personal view based on my own experience and research and in no way reflects animals australia.
I really don't like the use of the word 'some' in your opening sentence....  It should read 'while some farmers don't take care of their animals most do'... then we maybe on the same page. While some people don't take care of their children most do, while some people don't take care of their workmates most do, while some people don't take care of their pets most do and so forth.  On the whole most people are good.  There are rotten eggs in every walk of life, the farming industry is no exception. Enough of that.   I am not at all keen on factory farming of any sort.  I have yet to take a proactive road on this objection though as I still eat pork and chicken on rare occasions. Now lets get one thing straight people will eat meat forever more.  The question should be how is AA going to work with that.  Cheers
Since I don't just refer to Australia but the globe I think my statement is spot on. The vast majority of the 56 billion land animals raised for food annually are produced in factory farms and CAFO's. Family farms are a rarity in the world today, particularly in the USA. Most of my knowledge is based on US practices and since that single country produces and consumes 1 in 5 of the animals raised for food globally it seems prudent to focus on them just as much as Australia (And considering swine flu, which effected the world, has been tracked back to an american pig farm). Once in-vitro meat becomes viable then perhaps we may be able to accept the fact that the world won't stop eating meat (despite all the pitfalls concerning health). Until that time I will keep trying to get people to realise that there is no difference between eating their beloved dog/cat and the animal on their plate and that if they are averse to eating one species then they're a hypocrite for eating another. My circle of compassion extends to all creatures, and I can one hundred percent call myself an animal lover. One day I hope more people can make that claim.

But I don't just oppose animal agriculture purely from an animal rights stand point. I consider myself an environmentalist and you can't be an environmentalist if you eat animal products.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367646/

The above is a fully sourced article from a peer-reviewed journal discussing global farm animal production and climate change.

Abstract

Background
The farm animal sector is the single largest anthropogenic user of land, contributing to many environmental problems, including global warming and climate change.

Objectives
The aim of this study was to synthesize and expand upon existing data on the contribution of farm animal production to climate change.

Methods
We analyzed the scientific literature on farm animal production and documented greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, as well as various mitigation strategies.

Discussions
An analysis of meat, egg, and milk production encompasses not only the direct rearing and slaughtering of animals, but also grain and fertilizer production for animal feed, waste storage and disposal, water use, and energy expenditures on farms and in transporting feed and finished animal products, among other key impacts of the production process as a whole.

Conclusions
Immediate and far-reaching changes in current animal agriculture practices and consumption patterns are both critical and timely if GHGs from the farm animal sector are to be mitigated.
Keywords: animal agriculture, CAFO, climate change, concentrated animal feeding operation, diet, environment, farm animals, farm animal welfare, food choices, global warming, greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs)
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JMort JMort VIC Posts: 248
14 11 Nov 2011
Cassie this entire thread you've missed a step. You've gone straight to welfare concerns but you've missed the step where you consider that perhaps people don't agree that keeping animals as commodities to be sold and slaughtered is right. Not everyone accepts this so going to a beef producing property isn't going to change their opinion of this.
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Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
15 11 Nov 2011
JMort said:
Cassie this entire thread you've missed a step. You've gone straight to welfare concerns but you've missed the step where you consider that perhaps people don't agree that keeping animals as commodities to be sold and slaughtered is right. Not everyone accepts this so going to a beef producing property isn't going to change their opinion of this.
Regardless of whether you agree or not the world's population simply cannot be sustained on a vegan diet.  In this country agriculture is limited to the more fertile land.  And whether you like it or not a lot of that land is now being torn up for mining.  Blame the bloody govt there and some more.  I know I will get howled down by 'facts' and figures as the previous bit of rhetoric.  You tell me how the world will live on a vegan diet and I will tell you that you will be not exactly telling the truth.  It is IMPOSSIBLE. I can take comfort in the fact that most people would know that this is realism not idealism.  AND I am still waiting for all of the omnis who supposedly frequent this site to come forward and state their point.  Come on omnis this is a healthy debate for the most part, thow your hat in the ring, give it a shot, they won't bite.....
ReplyQuote

Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
16 11 Nov 2011
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Karen said:
Hey Cassie3!

First of all, you are absolutely, positively, definitely *not* the only omni here. There are lots of you! And you are all welcome happy

xMISSMONSTERx said:
It's an organisation for taking a stand against animal cruelty.
MissMonster has it pretty much right. Animals Australia is an animal protection organisation whose "goal is to significantly and permanently improve the welfare of all animals in Australia."

Unleashed (http://www.unleashed.org.au) is the youth arm of Animals Australia (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/).

We recognise that vegetarians and vegans only make up a very small precent of the population right now. So, if our organisation was only for these people then we'd be cutting out a massive chunk of the population who also care about animals and can have a big impact on their lives.

A lot of the campaigns we run relate to farmed animals because they represent the largest number of animals who are suffering routine abuse in this country with very few laws to protect them from harm. It is true that the ultimate way you can help protect these animals in your daily life is simply not to eat them - but other people choose to reduce the amount of animal products they eat, while others choose to buy higher welfare products (like organic). All of these choices add up to create significant change for animals. And Animals Australia and Unleashed are here to support and encourage everyone who wants to make changes in their lives - no matter how big or small - that can have a positive impact for animals.

But harping on about what we eat is not the only way we campaign to help animals. There are other campaigns that don't relate to eating choices at all - like fur, animal testing, dog and cat euthanasia, dolphin hunting, live export, etc. Cruelty is cruelty and in some cases it doesn't matter if you're vegetarian or not - you can still make a difference for animals.

That's what we're all about. I hope that clears it up! And I hope you'll stick around happy
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
While some farmers may care about the welfare of their products not all do. I think it's generally accepted that beef production has a lot fewer welfare problems than for other animals. I'd love to know your take on intensive production of chickens and pigs. A lot of my issues lie with the fact that these animals are slaughtered needlessly in our society and that abbatoir conditions are awful(have family that has worked in one, have tried to set up a visits but not been allowed anywhere near), not just for the animals but for the people working there too. The bottom line is that no matter how well an animal is treated while they're growing they're still going to be killed with no regard, and since the goal is to get as many animals processed as quickly as possible there will no doubt be little care for the welfare of the animals. They're just going to end up dead anyway right.

EDIT: This is entirely my personal view based on my own experience and research and in no way reflects animals australia.
I really don't like the use of the word 'some' in your opening sentence....  It should read 'while some farmers don't take care of their animals most do'... then we maybe on the same page. While some people don't take care of their children most do, while some people don't take care of their workmates most do, while some people don't take care of their pets most do and so forth.  On the whole most people are good.  There are rotten eggs in every walk of life, the farming industry is no exception. Enough of that.   I am not at all keen on factory farming of any sort.  I have yet to take a proactive road on this objection though as I still eat pork and chicken on rare occasions. Now lets get one thing straight people will eat meat forever more.  The question should be how is AA going to work with that.  Cheers
Since I don't just refer to Australia but the globe I think my statement is spot on. The vast majority of the 56 billion land animals raised for food annually are produced in factory farms and CAFO's. Family farms are a rarity in the world today, particularly in the USA. Most of my knowledge is based on US practices and since that single country produces and consumes 1 in 5 of the animals raised for food globally it seems prudent to focus on them just as much as Australia (And considering swine flu, which effected the world, has been tracked back to an american pig farm). Once in-vitro meat becomes viable then perhaps we may be able to accept the fact that the world won't stop eating meat (despite all the pitfalls concerning health). Until that time I will keep trying to get people to realise that there is no difference between eating their beloved dog/cat and the animal on their plate and that if they are averse to eating one species then they're a hypocrite for eating another. My circle of compassion extends to all creatures, and I can one hundred percent call myself an animal lover. One day I hope more people can make that claim.

But I don't just oppose animal agriculture purely from an animal rights stand point. I consider myself an environmentalist and you can't be an environmentalist if you eat animal products.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367646/

The above is a fully sourced article from a peer-reviewed journal discussing global farm animal production and climate change.

Abstract

Background
The farm animal sector is the single largest anthropogenic user of land, contributing to many environmental problems, including global warming and climate change.

Objectives
The aim of this study was to synthesize and expand upon existing data on the contribution of farm animal production to climate change.

Methods
We analyzed the scientific literature on farm animal production and documented greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, as well as various mitigation strategies.

Discussions
An analysis of meat, egg, and milk production encompasses not only the direct rearing and slaughtering of animals, but also grain and fertilizer production for animal feed, waste storage and disposal, water use, and energy expenditures on farms and in transporting feed and finished animal products, among other key impacts of the production process as a whole.

Conclusions
Immediate and far-reaching changes in current animal agriculture practices and consumption patterns are both critical and timely if GHGs from the farm animal sector are to be mitigated.
Keywords: animal agriculture, CAFO, climate change, concentrated animal feeding operation, diet, environment, farm animals, farm animal welfare, food choices, global warming, greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs)
Oh Catyren you talk the talk but you fail miserably to walk the walk.  You will never convince me or that majority of the population that it is possible to feed the world on a vegan diet.  Idealism at it's best......
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xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
17 11 Nov 2011
As far as I was aware, animals ate plants.... and then humans eat the animal.
Cut out the middle man I say.
ReplyQuote

TheSixthStitch TheSixthStitch Aruba Posts: 988
18 11 Nov 2011
Cassie3 said:
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.
Probably, as is the case with veg*ns. Looking at the Who's Online panel to the right, it says at the moment there are 40 'guests' viewing the forums... LURKERS! Reveal yourselves! wink

Daniel5 contributed a while back [e.g.  http://www.unleashed.org.au/community/forum/topic.php?t=4716& ]

as did Sebastien [ http://www.unleashed.org.au/community/forum/topic.php?t=5011& ]

Some people don't feel confident posting what they want to say, and others couldn't be bothered. And then some people go MIA for a while and return every few months.

So... you are not alone.

[damn you Michael Jackson for that song]
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jack jack VIC Posts: 1463
19 11 Nov 2011
The majority of farmers don't care for their animals as the majority of meat consumed in Australia is factory farmed, you are one of the good ones. Sort of, While I completely agree with some of the points you raise and im not an abolitionist at all I just don't agree with killing animals.
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jack jack VIC Posts: 1463
20 11 Nov 2011
[/quote]

Regardless of whether you agree or not the world's population simply cannot be sustained on a vegan diet.  In this country agriculture is limited to the more fertile land.  And whether you like it or not a lot of that land is now being torn up for mining.  Blame the bloody govt there and some more.  I know I will get howled down by 'facts' and figures as the previous bit of rhetoric.  You tell me how the world will live on a vegan diet and I will tell you that you will be not exactly telling the truth.  It is IMPOSSIBLE. I can take comfort in the fact that most people would know that this is realism not idealism.  AND I am still waiting for all of the omnis who supposedly frequent this site to come forward and state their point.  Come on omnis this is a healthy debate for the most part, thow your hat in the ring, give it a shot, they won't bite.....
[/quote]


Its said that if humans continue eating the amount of meat they are, we will need more planets to sustain our eating habits, not the other way around. If everyone went vegan all the worlds poor would be fed and we could be sustained in one planet, thats not a practical logic or idea though so i just focus on helping animals , not really constantly pushing a vegan diet.
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