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Animals Australia clarification

Animal welfare or more

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Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
31 11 Nov 2011
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Karen said:
Hey Cassie3!

First of all, you are absolutely, positively, definitely *not* the only omni here. There are lots of you! And you are all welcome happy

xMISSMONSTERx said:
It's an organisation for taking a stand against animal cruelty.
MissMonster has it pretty much right. Animals Australia is an animal protection organisation whose "goal is to significantly and permanently improve the welfare of all animals in Australia."

Unleashed (http://www.unleashed.org.au) is the youth arm of Animals Australia (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/).

We recognise that vegetarians and vegans only make up a very small precent of the population right now. So, if our organisation was only for these people then we'd be cutting out a massive chunk of the population who also care about animals and can have a big impact on their lives.

A lot of the campaigns we run relate to farmed animals because they represent the largest number of animals who are suffering routine abuse in this country with very few laws to protect them from harm. It is true that the ultimate way you can help protect these animals in your daily life is simply not to eat them - but other people choose to reduce the amount of animal products they eat, while others choose to buy higher welfare products (like organic). All of these choices add up to create significant change for animals. And Animals Australia and Unleashed are here to support and encourage everyone who wants to make changes in their lives - no matter how big or small - that can have a positive impact for animals.

But harping on about what we eat is not the only way we campaign to help animals. There are other campaigns that don't relate to eating choices at all - like fur, animal testing, dog and cat euthanasia, dolphin hunting, live export, etc. Cruelty is cruelty and in some cases it doesn't matter if you're vegetarian or not - you can still make a difference for animals.

That's what we're all about. I hope that clears it up! And I hope you'll stick around happy
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
While some farmers may care about the welfare of their products not all do. I think it's generally accepted that beef production has a lot fewer welfare problems than for other animals. I'd love to know your take on intensive production of chickens and pigs. A lot of my issues lie with the fact that these animals are slaughtered needlessly in our society and that abbatoir conditions are awful(have family that has worked in one, have tried to set up a visits but not been allowed anywhere near), not just for the animals but for the people working there too. The bottom line is that no matter how well an animal is treated while they're growing they're still going to be killed with no regard, and since the goal is to get as many animals processed as quickly as possible there will no doubt be little care for the welfare of the animals. They're just going to end up dead anyway right.

EDIT: This is entirely my personal view based on my own experience and research and in no way reflects animals australia.
I really don't like the use of the word 'some' in your opening sentence....  It should read 'while some farmers don't take care of their animals most do'... then we maybe on the same page. While some people don't take care of their children most do, while some people don't take care of their workmates most do, while some people don't take care of their pets most do and so forth.  On the whole most people are good.  There are rotten eggs in every walk of life, the farming industry is no exception. Enough of that.   I am not at all keen on factory farming of any sort.  I have yet to take a proactive road on this objection though as I still eat pork and chicken on rare occasions. Now lets get one thing straight people will eat meat forever more.  The question should be how is AA going to work with that.  Cheers
Since I don't just refer to Australia but the globe I think my statement is spot on. The vast majority of the 56 billion land animals raised for food annually are produced in factory farms and CAFO's. Family farms are a rarity in the world today, particularly in the USA. Most of my knowledge is based on US practices and since that single country produces and consumes 1 in 5 of the animals raised for food globally it seems prudent to focus on them just as much as Australia (And considering swine flu, which effected the world, has been tracked back to an american pig farm). Once in-vitro meat becomes viable then perhaps we may be able to accept the fact that the world won't stop eating meat (despite all the pitfalls concerning health). Until that time I will keep trying to get people to realise that there is no difference between eating their beloved dog/cat and the animal on their plate and that if they are averse to eating one species then they're a hypocrite for eating another. My circle of compassion extends to all creatures, and I can one hundred percent call myself an animal lover. One day I hope more people can make that claim.

But I don't just oppose animal agriculture purely from an animal rights stand point. I consider myself an environmentalist and you can't be an environmentalist if you eat animal products.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367646/

The above is a fully sourced article from a peer-reviewed journal discussing global farm animal production and climate change.

Abstract

Background
The farm animal sector is the single largest anthropogenic user of land, contributing to many environmental problems, including global warming and climate change.

Objectives
The aim of this study was to synthesize and expand upon existing data on the contribution of farm animal production to climate change.

Methods
We analyzed the scientific literature on farm animal production and documented greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, as well as various mitigation strategies.

Discussions
An analysis of meat, egg, and milk production encompasses not only the direct rearing and slaughtering of animals, but also grain and fertilizer production for animal feed, waste storage and disposal, water use, and energy expenditures on farms and in transporting feed and finished animal products, among other key impacts of the production process as a whole.

Conclusions
Immediate and far-reaching changes in current animal agriculture practices and consumption patterns are both critical and timely if GHGs from the farm animal sector are to be mitigated.
Keywords: animal agriculture, CAFO, climate change, concentrated animal feeding operation, diet, environment, farm animals, farm animal welfare, food choices, global warming, greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs)
Oh Catyren you talk the talk but you fail miserably to walk the walk.  You will never convince me or that majority of the population that it is possible to feed the world on a vegan diet.  Idealism at it's best......
Well you obviously didn't read the literature. I have read the literature, fully peer reviewed scientific papers that are not associated with animal rights organisations in any way, studies that the United Nations are using to try to convince westerners to reduce animal product consumption. I'm not an idealist, I'm a human that is convinced that the way we're going is going to kill this planet and since animal agriculture is the greatest cause of destruction of arable land it is the issue that needs to be addressed the most. These are finding that my university studies have supported.
Right Catyren how the devil do you propose to water all of the vegetable crops that would  be needed to sustain even Australia's population on a vegan  diet.  Just so out of the question.  Oh maybe the good old Murray Darling will come to our aid, no wait it is in seriously trouble already.  Anyway would love to hear your plan for feeding us on a vegan diet.  Where is this food to be grown, how is the land to be cleared for such massive plantings, how is the soil to be fertilized for any sort of success and above all how are you planning to water it all.  I will await your ideas. Cheers
You do realise that most of the grain grown around the world goes to feeding the 58 billion farm animals produced globally every year, don't you? Imagine if this land was used to grow crops to feed humans. You're a farmer, you should be well aware how much water your animals require to stay alive(and how much water it takes to grow feed), imagine if that water was used for crops for people. When you take into account the amount of land and water it takes to sustain a meat eating diet as opposed to a plant based diet you can see how detrimental raising animals for food is on our land. Also, if we could get more people growing food plants at home over decorative plants it would certainly be easier. This is what I plan, I want to be as self sufficient as possible and I will give any surplus to my family. There is more than enough food in the world to sustain the current population but it isn't equitably distributed. Doesn't it irk you that australia is in the running for world's fattest nation when others starve?
ReplyQuote

Cassie3 Cassie3 QLD Posts: 115
32 11 Nov 2011
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Catyren said:
Cassie3 said:
Karen said:
Hey Cassie3!

First of all, you are absolutely, positively, definitely *not* the only omni here. There are lots of you! And you are all welcome happy

xMISSMONSTERx said:
It's an organisation for taking a stand against animal cruelty.
MissMonster has it pretty much right. Animals Australia is an animal protection organisation whose "goal is to significantly and permanently improve the welfare of all animals in Australia."

Unleashed (http://www.unleashed.org.au) is the youth arm of Animals Australia (http://www.animalsaustralia.org/).

We recognise that vegetarians and vegans only make up a very small precent of the population right now. So, if our organisation was only for these people then we'd be cutting out a massive chunk of the population who also care about animals and can have a big impact on their lives.

A lot of the campaigns we run relate to farmed animals because they represent the largest number of animals who are suffering routine abuse in this country with very few laws to protect them from harm. It is true that the ultimate way you can help protect these animals in your daily life is simply not to eat them - but other people choose to reduce the amount of animal products they eat, while others choose to buy higher welfare products (like organic). All of these choices add up to create significant change for animals. And Animals Australia and Unleashed are here to support and encourage everyone who wants to make changes in their lives - no matter how big or small - that can have a positive impact for animals.

But harping on about what we eat is not the only way we campaign to help animals. There are other campaigns that don't relate to eating choices at all - like fur, animal testing, dog and cat euthanasia, dolphin hunting, live export, etc. Cruelty is cruelty and in some cases it doesn't matter if you're vegetarian or not - you can still make a difference for animals.

That's what we're all about. I hope that clears it up! And I hope you'll stick around happy
Thank you for this info Karen.  I must say that I have not read any posts from other omnis.  Maybe they are keeping 'mum' with their opinions.  You are right cruelty is cruelty and I can categorically state that our animals are well cared for regardless of the fact that the beef cattle are for consumption eventually.  All twelve hundred head of cattle, work dogs, work horses, goats etc.  They are a lot to care for and I think we do a mighty fine job of it.  And just for the record I know that most of our fellow beef producers are just as caring.  I take umbrage at the suggestion that there is routine abuse of livestock on farms.  I think it would pay for some on this website to get right out there and spend some time on a beef producing property such as ours.  I have made the offer on several occasions but none seem willing to broaden their minds.  Ah well one can only hope that one day they will open their minds.  Cheers
While some farmers may care about the welfare of their products not all do. I think it's generally accepted that beef production has a lot fewer welfare problems than for other animals. I'd love to know your take on intensive production of chickens and pigs. A lot of my issues lie with the fact that these animals are slaughtered needlessly in our society and that abbatoir conditions are awful(have family that has worked in one, have tried to set up a visits but not been allowed anywhere near), not just for the animals but for the people working there too. The bottom line is that no matter how well an animal is treated while they're growing they're still going to be killed with no regard, and since the goal is to get as many animals processed as quickly as possible there will no doubt be little care for the welfare of the animals. They're just going to end up dead anyway right.

EDIT: This is entirely my personal view based on my own experience and research and in no way reflects animals australia.
I really don't like the use of the word 'some' in your opening sentence....  It should read 'while some farmers don't take care of their animals most do'... then we maybe on the same page. While some people don't take care of their children most do, while some people don't take care of their workmates most do, while some people don't take care of their pets most do and so forth.  On the whole most people are good.  There are rotten eggs in every walk of life, the farming industry is no exception. Enough of that.   I am not at all keen on factory farming of any sort.  I have yet to take a proactive road on this objection though as I still eat pork and chicken on rare occasions. Now lets get one thing straight people will eat meat forever more.  The question should be how is AA going to work with that.  Cheers
Since I don't just refer to Australia but the globe I think my statement is spot on. The vast majority of the 56 billion land animals raised for food annually are produced in factory farms and CAFO's. Family farms are a rarity in the world today, particularly in the USA. Most of my knowledge is based on US practices and since that single country produces and consumes 1 in 5 of the animals raised for food globally it seems prudent to focus on them just as much as Australia (And considering swine flu, which effected the world, has been tracked back to an american pig farm). Once in-vitro meat becomes viable then perhaps we may be able to accept the fact that the world won't stop eating meat (despite all the pitfalls concerning health). Until that time I will keep trying to get people to realise that there is no difference between eating their beloved dog/cat and the animal on their plate and that if they are averse to eating one species then they're a hypocrite for eating another. My circle of compassion extends to all creatures, and I can one hundred percent call myself an animal lover. One day I hope more people can make that claim.

But I don't just oppose animal agriculture purely from an animal rights stand point. I consider myself an environmentalist and you can't be an environmentalist if you eat animal products.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2367646/

The above is a fully sourced article from a peer-reviewed journal discussing global farm animal production and climate change.

Abstract

Background
The farm animal sector is the single largest anthropogenic user of land, contributing to many environmental problems, including global warming and climate change.

Objectives
The aim of this study was to synthesize and expand upon existing data on the contribution of farm animal production to climate change.

Methods
We analyzed the scientific literature on farm animal production and documented greenhouse gas (GHG) emissions, as well as various mitigation strategies.

Discussions
An analysis of meat, egg, and milk production encompasses not only the direct rearing and slaughtering of animals, but also grain and fertilizer production for animal feed, waste storage and disposal, water use, and energy expenditures on farms and in transporting feed and finished animal products, among other key impacts of the production process as a whole.

Conclusions
Immediate and far-reaching changes in current animal agriculture practices and consumption patterns are both critical and timely if GHGs from the farm animal sector are to be mitigated.
Keywords: animal agriculture, CAFO, climate change, concentrated animal feeding operation, diet, environment, farm animals, farm animal welfare, food choices, global warming, greenhouse gas emissions (GHGs)
Oh Catyren you talk the talk but you fail miserably to walk the walk.  You will never convince me or that majority of the population that it is possible to feed the world on a vegan diet.  Idealism at it's best......
Well you obviously didn't read the literature. I have read the literature, fully peer reviewed scientific papers that are not associated with animal rights organisations in any way, studies that the United Nations are using to try to convince westerners to reduce animal product consumption. I'm not an idealist, I'm a human that is convinced that the way we're going is going to kill this planet and since animal agriculture is the greatest cause of destruction of arable land it is the issue that needs to be addressed the most. These are finding that my university studies have supported.
Right Catyren how the devil do you propose to water all of the vegetable crops that would  be needed to sustain even Australia's population on a vegan  diet.  Just so out of the question.  Oh maybe the good old Murray Darling will come to our aid, no wait it is in seriously trouble already.  Anyway would love to hear your plan for feeding us on a vegan diet.  Where is this food to be grown, how is the land to be cleared for such massive plantings, how is the soil to be fertilized for any sort of success and above all how are you planning to water it all.  I will await your ideas. Cheers
You do realise that most of the grain grown around the world goes to feeding the 58 billion farm animals produced globally every year, don't you? Imagine if this land was used to grow crops to feed humans. You're a farmer, you should be well aware how much water your animals require to stay alive(and how much water it takes to grow feed), imagine if that water was used for crops for people. When you take into account the amount of land and water it takes to sustain a meat eating diet as opposed to a plant based diet you can see how detrimental raising animals for food is on our land. Also, if we could get more people growing food plants at home over decorative plants it would certainly be easier. This is what I plan, I want to be as self sufficient as possible and I will give any surplus to my family. There is more than enough food in the world to sustain the current population but it isn't equitably distributed. Doesn't it irk you that australia is in the running for world's fattest nation when others starve?
Yes I am a farmer and yes I am well aware of how much water it takes to keep animals alive as opposed to how much it takes to keep a crop healthy.  A damn side more for the latter.  .  I do however agree with you with you on the issue of being as self sufficient as possible.  I admire that and think we all should be moving in that direction.  Good for you.We are indeed a very spoilt race of people.  Obesity is our biggest health problem but I don't think that meat eating is the cause of this.  I often think that people who are caeliacs ( spell check ) have the healthiest diet of all.  Yes obesity does irk me...  Hungry people in the world and big fat Australians waddling around....  Cheers
ReplyQuote

xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
33 12 Nov 2011
In the end, I really couldn't care less how unideal or unrealistic someone might think a vegan world is. When discussing meat, you must remember that it came from a living, breathing animal capable of emotion, which can also suffer and feel pain. I don't want that on my plate, or my conscience.
ReplyQuote

Glen Glen VIC Posts: 337
35 12 Nov 2011
Cassie3 said:
Yes I am a farmer and yes I am well aware of how much water it takes to keep animals alive as opposed to how much it takes to keep a crop healthy.  A damn side more for the latter.  .  I do however agree with you with you on the issue of being as self sufficient as possible.  I admire that and think we all should be moving in that direction.  Good for you.We are indeed a very spoilt race of people.  Obesity is our biggest health problem but I don't think that meat eating is the cause of this.  I often think that people who are caeliacs ( spell check ) have the healthiest diet of all.  Yes obesity does irk me...  Hungry people in the world and big fat Australians waddling around....  Cheers
Pragmatic point: can we start chopping out the unnecessary bits when we're quoting each other? It's making this thread really hard to follow.

Now. Have you read anything I've written about the water consumption in chicken factory farming? Think for a moment about these crops which you say take more water to nurture than what animals drink: yes, this may be true, but the point Wolf and I have been arguing is that too many of these blinkin' crops are being grown merely to feed to cattle etc. Take a drive out in the country today, and count how many bales of hay you see. We don't eat that stuff, at least last time I checked we don't, and that land could be used to grow crops fit for human consumption. This is all we're trying to say.
ReplyQuote

Cow Hugger Cow Hugger SA Posts: 346
36 12 Nov 2011
Glen said:
Pragmatic point: can we start chopping out the unnecessary bits when we're quoting each other? It's making this thread really hard to follow.
so much scrollinggg!
ReplyQuote

..1 ..1 TAS Posts: 2265
37 12 Nov 2011
Cassie3 said:
Obesity is our biggest health problem but I don't think that meat eating is the cause of this.
And yet I've never met an obese vegan. wink
ReplyQuote

Cow Hugger Cow Hugger SA Posts: 346
38 12 Nov 2011
this just has some quick and easy facts for you all to read through! now i know it's based on the US, but it shows you how severe the amount is, especially when applied globally.

http://www.idausa.org/campaigns/vegan/quickfacts.html
ReplyQuote

DaveQB DaveQB NSW Posts: 287
39 12 Nov 2011
xMISSMONSTERx said:
In the end, I really couldn't care less how unideal or unrealistic someone might think a vegan world is. When discussing meat, you must remember that it came from a living, breathing animal capable of emotion, which can also suffer and feel pain. I don't want that on my plate, or my conscience.
Well said!
ReplyQuote

Catyren Catyren WA Posts: 542
40 12 Nov 2011
Maggie said:
Cassie3 said:
Obesity is our biggest health problem but I don't think that meat eating is the cause of this.
And yet I've never met an obese vegan. wink
My few extra kilos have been steadily dropping since giving meat the boot. And with all the literature surfacing about how unhealthy animal products and processed foods are I couldn't imagine wanting to eat that junk if you hadn't been conditioned into thinking it's good. I've never felt better. I sleep better, I'm no longer overweight, I'm happier, my skin is clearer, my digestive system is happier, I have more energy. The benefits don't end happy can't wait to see how eating more raw over summer will go!
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