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Indonesian Paper

is it all bad>

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Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
1 15 Mar 2012
I make the activity booklets up each year for the students stay over at the Zoo
and have done for their trip to Malaysia. All of this is based around endangered species.

Orangutans and Sunbears....

I didn't even bat an eye lid when I read on the REAMS of paper i've been hating and loading into the photocopiers when ever I have a moment spare to fill them up for everyone (who can't be bothered sending an electronic file to students)... that they are 'Made in Indonesia" and along side "Sustainable blah"...

Like i'm printing images  of Children's story book animals onto their habitat~ tigers, hippos, elephants and myriad monkeyyyyyys + unknown. To educate kids about .... the suffering of animals being entirely human caused and all about threatened habitats... like photos of logged trees in bolder, brighter, more sustained color. Like.. "yeah that sounds about right".

I found this:!

From this:

And these reference articles too:

On average I will use about 9A4+2A3x500sheet blocks of paper... on a standard day to refill from photocopy room general use. But I could use about 6A4+1A3 in one of the three copiers on another day.

I loathe the stuff... the way it is used... it is made to be wasted to need more to legitimize further crimes to slip by ... like living under a weary gaze from an ineffectual authority.

Apparently there... with all of these armies and institutions, not one to enforce LAW, when related to anything of the Earth... unless the broken law is costing more money than well being.

I can foresee that these companies have over looked Indonesian paper as spent in their minds... they probably have already invested the money from these profits they're just waiting like dominoes to topple.

The first highway into the amazon was created knowing full well what it is going to be used for. I'm sure these companies are well aware of this too... and smothering a whole campaign with one face... of something so similar to ourselves.. an 'Orang- Utan'... meaning 'PEOPLE... of the FOREST'... is possibly THE worst idea.
A distraction and smoke screen for moving onto a new area, the real issue being avoided, by building sanctuaries out of wood and feeling better.

Not to mention most of the paper companies have sparkly nature based animations, like they themselves are the inspirations for picture book ethos... "we're involved in your passion... we're involved with the forests.... trust us".. *yark

Anyway, does anyone know of an actually decent source of paper in Australia?

RaV3N RaV3N WA Posts: 2152
2 15 Mar 2012
I worked in the paper industry for 2.5yrs. Australian paper is not just from Australian pulp. This is probably your biggest problem.

The best way to guarantee you're using the best paper out there make sure you choose those that are FSC or PEFC certified.

Most pulp that Australian Paper uses in the making of their paper comes from Tassie, Chile, Europe and some from Canada. Whatever is available at the time. But if the paper is marked as FSC or PEFC they have been grown and farmed the same way in each country - all from plantation.

APRIL came to the party on paper, but out in the real world they never did.

But in a nutshell - yes. All Indonesian paper is bad as they don't care for the habitat of the animals who live there. It's pretty much always old growth.

So you're best bet for Aussie paper is Reflex. They have stuff with recycled content and a carbon neutral line also.

ps: Australian Paper is actually now owned by the Japanese company, Nipon wink

Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
3 15 Mar 2012
Ha! they make cheap CHEAP camera lenses too.
(edit: wait no I don't that is legitimate company, is a line of fakes)

Hum.. Maybe now they will have money to design rain-forest durable camera equipment... not that they will have to by then. If noone makes governments liable for not protecting their land or resources, which they apparently 'own'  or in the least 'govern' (not so apparent)..

Thanks so much for the info! happy You're one helpful Raven.

Hopefully this College will stop using Indonesian paper... If I could find a cheaper source... I might have a chance 'le sigh'.

Do you know anything about 'Ditto' or those rather inexpensive brands seen around supermarkets. I should probably start backwards and look for a distributors list for Adelaide then check into where/ what quality their paper is of.

RaV3N RaV3N WA Posts: 2152
4 15 Mar 2012
Sadly Indonesian paper is cheap for a reason - they don't have to pay to be FSC or PEFC certified....

There is a paper called Double A. This is probably the best Asian grade you can get. The Double A mill isn't FSC or PEFC BUT they have a line of their own "certifications". They have a dam which collects water during the monsoon and that is used for 100% of their water needs. They burn waste products from the trees (bark and such) to use as power to run the mill. They have a buy/sell program with farmers. Basically the farmers buy tree saplings from them, plant them around their farms which helps their soils, helps collect carbon, and then once they have grown the mill buys them back and the farmers get a profit. There are a few other things they do (or did). This could have changed however as I haven't worked in the industry for 18mths, and things can change quickly!

Ditto is Australian made, which would mean Australia Paper would produce it. I can't find any further info about it but if AP make it it's better than any Indonesian crap.

RaV3N RaV3N WA Posts: 2152
5 15 Mar 2012
How much paper do you go through on a monthly basis? It might be worthwhile talking to a paper merchant. For A4/A3 precut stock you're best talking to Leading Brands - Adelaide number is 1800 80 43 78. If you go through a decent amount they should be able to look after you.
These guys sell Australian Paper made stock. They may have cheaper imported stocks, but you will need to tell them you want the most cost effective environmentally friendly stock available.

Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
6 16 Mar 2012
I'm going to guess 300 Reams (500 sheet blocks) a week.

But will let you know encase you're curious how much a College uses,
when I find out.

Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
7 16 Mar 2012
It sounds like Double A have some pretty credible practices... would en FSC or PEFC certified company even be any better than something like this? I mean if they still maintain those ideals and stick by them today and havn't deviated because of the temptation of suppliers sitting on their mounds of gold selling it off cheap and easy-quick like moving dirty money. The cheaper they can sell it and pump up demand by over stocking surplus, causing more implications for publication and paper work... the quicker it moves and the quicker they can get rid of the forests ;the quicker then can pack up and dismember their faceless face... slave workers kept anonymously poor by a suppressive life style... using many company heads for each part of the operations... all which slip into ambiguity after the money has dissipate from pockets to RAM.

Well actually, I composed the idea today...

that since humans have gained a Conscience... this probably has caused a more devastating impact due to pride... but also mainly that the deforestation has probably increased rapidly... with this pressing sense of urgency put over the scavenger world. Like... finally we are capable of this faculty of scorning unnecessary losses to life. Side effects of our systems devices not translating well, so to exploitation of a fabrication currency. People can sense the deadline of inaction from the world for the sake of its' animals and future necessities of all species to remain functioning as they do, for our cure, all and entirely, being soon enacted, which is just causing loggers to hurry up the process. Taking any opportunity which arises.

One statement there based on the notion....

If the world would 'Humor' me...

A Logging company estimates their average amount of timber... from the rain-forests and most highly populated densities of diverse life on the planet they simply said:

"This Day he have 200 logs/cuts... which are worth 120$money each"..

The mills/paper makers or suppliers then give them this figure of $money..

Then the mills/paper makers say to the whole salers... "we have made 2000 paper crates... which are worth 80$money each..."

They then give the makers the $money figured amount...

Then the whole salers say to the shops "we have 2000 paper crates... which are worth $120 money each..."

They then give the wholesalers this $money from their account.

Then the shops say "we have paper lots from crate surplus for sale at a special price of only 27.99$money ea pack/lot  (1/8 crate)"

The demand then transfers this amount.

Now..... they have just been transferring currency and everyone is happy...

the only difference is that... there are more forests and much less land fill the next day.

Can you guess what they did....

they just pretended they were inflating the 'cost' and thus creating fake money into an economy dead set on the idea that it must always have a profit which is always more than a previous profit or it would be a 'loss' *gasp oht oh, fixation terror.

I personally ... cannot see how this wouldn't work.

The drivers can just sit on the toilet at home, making car noises with their lips... and get paid just the same. What exactly would be detrimental within society? We would have the forests... everyone would have money... they can spend on legitimate things.....

Crazy you might say....

Well I say you... that is what the government does to buy back this land they didn't have the right to give off...

and I mean....

Why would civilization be so eager to replace nature... because that is all they are accomplishing, one can speculate it is the sole purpose... I mean... what device is custom built to have one effect which is the most obvious impact... but actually it isn't made for that at all.. it is made for a contrived, fictional value based on virtue of memory alone.

"I remember I am owed a deed, I remember I am at a loss to someone who had a thing I did not, so I traded my mind for it, now I must put it to their brainless tasks.' is the dialogue of this world.

Reciprocity doesn't work cross contexts, cultures and configurations... they may carry the same thing... but currency is one big invention, ran entirely on pretentious energy.

The native world is being lost... AND IT IS WILD>>> BECAUSE IT CANNOT BE TAMED EVEN NOW>>> SUPPOSEDLY THEN THE ONLY FACULTY AVAILABLE TO OUR IMMENSE INTELLIGENCE< IS TO DESTROY IT. And pretend it brings us wealth and so we escape into books, stories of the lost and sold... stories of the time before...

the great war of words. The great loss of truth, within polar, absolute conclusions drawn from anything which resembles a sentence.... opinion. Oh you don't agree with me? So you are what like... my complete opposite~ nice to meet you *rolls eyes. I feel nothing for you but a little dismay and carelessness or a faint dis-concord of something which might have been .

Anyways... besides this... I have one of those terribly holly wood ideas that send a scuttle down your spine, tinglish your extremities... with one of those imploding emotions.

Of... Actually doing something... requiring action and great feats of ignorance toward the opinionated on mass, spectators, turned jury fed tales of morality with the choice to only choose or be defined guilty... of something.

Like forming an army for the animals... wow, one not set up as a prop or aggressors taunt.

Reminds me... I also though comically of the deforesters... taking away patches of tribes like a hurricane torn suburb... burning it all and moving through like a force of unstoppable righteous, not a eye in the world even apathetic to what this is.

Just imagine.. you don't know anything but your patch of trees and tales, fables... songs... and you see a  plane... crazy thoughts you might assume... but it is probably just as speculated as a shooting star... it probably is some weird bird... these minds are still existent... they are nothing we can comprehend yet ARE real in THIS time, NOW with our saddest sack of sorts.

So I thought... well... they have their existence shattered... they'rer all removed and faced with the most putrid reality... making fiberglass bath tubs or something to buy alcohol... not tender, unkind.

But I thought no... no they would be waving their sticks and rocks around wildly like it is the fight of the known world.. like they are the protectors of all they have ever known of the universe.....

and thus "these newly discovered tribes smoked out of the forest... ... they are REBEL FIGHTERS!! against the governed world.... WHY HASN"T AMERICA ARMED THEM!!!".

lol sorry I tell terrible jokes.,

But imagine that... some neanderthals with grenades running at bulldozers...

I was way too apt at making it a holy wood theatrical when I was contemplating how someone should actually do something, it made me feel all paths of fantastical resolution are blocked by this instilling of dramatization to the average civilian. Like... faith is a chance one MUST take... to have the chance... of something maybe coming from one's actions in a positive way... in some future... after the present scavengers are bribed to move off... because no institute set up exactly the same way has the power to criticize them, let alone do anything different.

My holly wood idea was just tigers sniffing out some animal fighters like pray or a threat... but as the tiger gets close to its' guardian (animal fighter)... one yells... AHHTAHHK!!.. and the sheer pure passion, urgent of threat and full of sincere desperation..(communicated the message we feel, that over whelming... all isn't even enough of you to stop this threat, so thrive in the collaberatives). causes the tiger to run with them.. toward some loggers... and it snaps a few necks... WOO!! go tiger...

I get bored making toast, maybe.

p.s. I'm sure stage 1 economists or.... accountants... .  wink . have a word for what i'm alluding to $wise... but just because a 'turn of phrase' exists for something... that doesn't make it legitimized... understood... accounted for... known or even cured. And I feel it is most relevant in this day and age with technology replacing faculties of memory...  that a fabricated currency can easily become a manipulative tool for a whole civilization... which you might notice we all in the modern world are of the same origin... sharing floor plans...

so if the make believe can become reality by a mass of people acting as one computer to convert an intention into a global affliction which has real impacts on the whole working of humanity as an organism... from stagnant architectural growth being positive or negative based on perspective... then who is to say dreams can't come true if everyone stops believing the make believe.