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Eating meat

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Anthony Anthony WA Posts: 216
11 8 Oct 2012
Calvin and Hobbes said:
Given our advances in genetic engineering, every cell in our body is a potential human being. By scratching your nose you are committing a holocaust of 20,000 potential selves. Obviously, we have no option but to ignore could be happiness, and focus our attention instead to maximizing wellbeing within existant life, even if that means cutting the life short.
That's an interesting idea. I'm not too sure how cutting a life short maximises well-being for that which has had it's life cut short, though.  confused
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Calvin and Hobbes Calvin and Hobbes VIC Posts: 7
12 8 Oct 2012
4_da_animals1 said:
Calvin and Hobbes said:
Hey, guys. Just watched Earthlings.

I believe it's morally permissible to eat an animal so long as it has been well cared for, lived a happy life, and been killed painlessly. That includes an environmentally sustained number of livestock

Do you guys think there should be a move to eradicate animal species that cause pain to one another, including, of course, carnivores? That's a bridge too far in our current society, but in a society that's vegetarian by an overwhelming majority, wouldn't that be the next step?

I think I'll eventually become a vegetarian/vegan. I recommend Zeitgeist Moving Forward (officially free on Youtube), it ties in really well with Earthlings/a vegetarian world view.
That's an interesting perspective, but have you considered that regardless of how well the animal has been cared for, there is no real humane way to take a life from another?
And it has been proven time and time again that eating meat, regardless of how well cared for the animal is is highly detrimental to our environment and health?
I recomment Meat the Truth, or most definatly eating animals by Jonathon Safran Foer
In today's society it isn't economically sustainable to have "morally adequate" solutions for the meat and animal by-product industry, it simply isn't the reality of today.
If it does become reality, I would certainly be more respectful of people's decisions to consume meat and animal by-products, but in the mean time, I highly recommend conveying your opinion through ditching those morally inadequate products you consume and wear today. happy
Sorry if that sounded in any way preachy!
I get it, guys. I have a labrador that I love. I use to have pet chickens that undoubtedly lived happily. My friend has a pet pig who is intelligent and well natured. I'm on the same page as you guys. My point being, the most harmful things aren't always the most disturbing.  What you want to do is promote the legislation of increasingly humane guidelines in the keeping of livestock. You'll then have meat eating allies. The prices of meat will skyrocket. It's a far more effective means to a vegan society.
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Glen Glen VIC Posts: 337
13 8 Oct 2012
Calvin and Hobbes said:
You could continue down that solipsistic line of thinking — you can only be sure of your own consciousness  — but for what reason then would you care about animals?


You do not, however, see a chicken having an existential crisis.
Answer to the question: if I didn't care about animals, I'd consider myself an arsehole.
Response to avian existential crises: mm yeah, but how do you know? They can't verbalise their feelings, and therefore we've got no idea that the chicken is staring at an egg and wondering about what came first. Furthermore, plenty of people go through life never questioning their own existence in any great depth, so maybe we should eat them too.
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OinkMoo OinkMoo NSW Posts: 1340
14 8 Oct 2012
Calvin and Hobbes said:
I believe it's morally permissible to eat an animal so long as it has been well cared for, lived a happy life, and been killed painlessly.
Definition of Humane:        
a) Having or showing compassion or benevolence.
b) Inflicting the minimum of pain

If is physically impossible to take away someones life without causing enormous amounts of fear, stress and pain which is the oppersite of Humane.  Animals are aware of what is happening around them.

For any animal on a farm that is been raised for meat or dairy production there are a few painful procedures they go through. eg: Male animals designed for meat production and not breeding will be castrated, a few common methods used to remove the testicals are: To cut them out without anesthetics or to use masculators. Sheep used for both wool and meat production will have the skin cut off from around there bottoms this is called Mulsing. Dairy cows must give birth once a year to produce milk, this means they have to give birth to a calf. Once the cow gives birth the calf is removed ASAP and either:
a) Killed on the farm with either a bullet to the head or it is hit in the head with a hammer
b) sold to auction where is will be bough for veal production
c) sold directly to the slaughterhouse
d) kept for herd replacement

these calves are less then 5 days old when they are killed or sold. There are many more practices that happen every day but there is a easy solution to prevent all of this physical and mental cruelty from happening.

Calvin and Hobbes said:
A cow, a pig, a chicken, isn't aware of its own mortality and isn't dwelling on the contingency that tomorrow may be its last day alive.
I beg to differ.  Have you ever seen a animal waiting for its turn at a slaughterhouse? they tremble with fear, call out for help, they try to jump the rails of the stock yards to escape.

Ive seen animals that scared when been rounded up to go on a truck that they are frozen still, ive seen large bullocks jump 6ft high stock yards to escape from heading to the slaughterhouse. They are well aware of what is happening around them.
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Calvin and Hobbes Calvin and Hobbes VIC Posts: 7
15 8 Oct 2012
OinkMoo said:
Calvin and Hobbes said:
A cow, a pig, a chicken, isn't aware of its own mortality and isn't dwelling on the contingency that tomorrow may be its last day alive.
I beg to differ.  Have you ever seen a animal waiting for its turn at a slaughterhouse? they tremble with fear, call out for help, they try to jump the rails of the stock yards to escape.

Ive seen animals that scared when been rounded up to go on a truck that they are frozen still, ive seen large bullocks jump 6ft high stock yards to escape from heading to the slaughterhouse. They are well aware of what is happening around them.
My argument was a well cared for animal is happy regardless of whether it'll eventually be eaten because it's not aware of its fate. I'm not suggesting that the current way they go about it is pleasant for the animal.

That's my point, doing it a way that's unbeknown to the animal.
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cassie2 cassie2 VIC Posts: 212
16 8 Oct 2012
i agree that unless you raise the animals yourself they probably wont be treated well.
lots of people think that free range means literally free range when nothing can be further from the truth.
the country's two biggest meat producers inghams and baida who supply supermarket chains, mcdonalds/ kfc have now added an free range label when in fact it isnt deliberatley deceiving consumers.
a producer could label their eggs free range if they kept as many as 20,000 birds per hectare. The current model code allows 1500.
KFC changed its advertising on its website, which also used the term free to roam.
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Calvin and Hobbes Calvin and Hobbes VIC Posts: 7
17 8 Oct 2012
You are all talking in a very self confirming way and have sidestepped every point I've raised. It's almost like being aware of an animal's suffering is a sickness and you are merely clearing your conscience rather than finding the most effective means of alleviating that suffering. I'm for the same cause as you guys,  a suffering-free world. I'm just looking for a better approach, and there undoubtedly is.

I'll probs go vegan (with the exception of free range eggs) when I leave home for uni/tafe/ whatever I do... bye y'all  chick love
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Kelsey1 MsDrago Kelsey1 MsDrago United States Posts: 818
18 8 Oct 2012
I would probably still eat animals if they were raised humanely. But lets be honest, how many humane slaughterhouses are there?
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4_da_animals1 4_da_animals1 SA Posts: 3293
19 9 Oct 2012
Calvin and Hobbes said:
You are all talking in a very self confirming way and have sidestepped every point I've raised. It's almost like being aware of an animal's suffering is a sickness and you are merely clearing your conscience rather than finding the most effective means of alleviating that suffering. I'm for the same cause as you guys,  a suffering-free world. I'm just looking for a better approach, and there undoubtedly is.

I'll probs go vegan (with the exception of free range eggs) when I leave home for uni/tafe/ whatever I do... bye y'all  chick love
Sounds good, just remember that regardless of what eggs you buy, all male chicks are still ground or gassed alive in the nurseries. So effectively you will be supporting sexism. peace I recommend investing in your own rescued battery chooks, and use their eggs however you like. peace
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Fish Fish VIC Posts: 149
20 11 Oct 2012
I myself personally don't see the point in eating another being when I dont need to. Also meat is all greasy and eewy.
Do you mean free-range eggs from the supermarket, or actual free-range from someone who keeps the chickens themselves and treats them very kindly? I get my eggs from a lady at my Nannas work, and this lady actually writes down the name of each chicken on the egg they laid.
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