i have always believed that u arent vegan unless you use products that arent tested on animals.
its pretty tough buying fair trade brands cos theres always going to be some part of it (the box or bag) that wouldve come from some form of child labour or exploitation.
And what, are we supposed to not buy from coles or woolworths cos they sell bad shit? Or the organic shop with milk and meat?
Or even the fruit and vegie shop with egg cartons?
Obviously it's preferable to buy from a vegan-only, fair trade etc company BUT there is a difference between the product you buy and who you buy it from.The buying of the product has a certain ethical necessity question whereas the company/outlet is a hazier question...
This is what I was starting to think...
agreed!
its best to do what u can!
Unless you live off the land 100%, grow your own cotton and make your own clothes, live in a mud shack, with dirt paths (because bitumen has animal fats in it! So yes people, even walking down the road isn't really "ethical") using no electricity and ride a horse bare back to get from A to B (& again some people don't see this a "ethical" but I personally do... no reins, no saddle) then you are not going to be 100% ethical.
If I was out and the ONLY option was to have a salad from KFC - then yes I would eat it. When I have options - hell no!
And I know this isn't my place but geez people - don't argue like this. If anyone wanders across Unleashed and reads this, do you think they are going to join and help us help the animals? Grow up. Act your ages, not your shoe sizes.
YAY! GOOD JOB
does that include yourself? it should.
Yes it does though that's more due to other people treating me like shit and beating myself esteem down to absolute zero. I reached a point where i was trying to constantly kill myself and ended up getting locked up for a month where i couldn't see my friends family and was force feed drugs . I even saw some of the doctors bash a pregant girl.. but thats another story
maybe instead of being a c**ty prick you can try to use understanding to work out why people feel the way they do. I shouldn't have to explain myslef to assholes considering there the reason i am the way i am.
look at the post above and you will understand why i said what i said.
we are very very privileged people but giving up is no better than causing harm
i'm sorry if i offended you but seriously, it could be worse.
jeeeeeeeeez
for having the brain to discuss human rights, it's surprising how ignorant you are of the world.
this guy takes medicine for anxiety. he's talked of not being able to go shopping in normal shopping centres (sorry bop if i got this wrong)
and from knowing someone with debilitating anxiety attacks, using your example as an analogy, normal life for the person i know IS LIKE walking around, waiting for a mine to explode. the guy i know can't go outside, sometimes not even outside his room, due to his anxiety. he cannot like a normal life (not bop, but a irl friend of mine).
it's gross that you make such swooping comments about mental illness. it will be hard for you to comprehend this, but for some suffers of anxiety, being confined to a 3rd world country is not unlike their life today.
i think you owe bop an apology just personally.
ummmm how do you know he has anxiety and how do you know he is getting treated
and how the f**k can you compare anxiety to starving to death or being tortured to the very inch of your life!
i feel for you and am sorry you have it but come on man, seriously.
you see, you're so ignorant of this whole thing.
because you can't see the "gun" as bop talks of, you don't understand and so just diss his problems. to him, at times like he has said, it is like a gun is pointed at his head. that's torture.
but nvm. mental illness is still a issue you can be "excused" to be ignorant of. but when you know someone with mental illness, such as anxiety, you realise how much of a problem and how cruel a problem it is.
please read the above quoted discussions
Zachory i noticed you went from eating meat to being completely vegan in the space off two hours? even deleted a message grace wrote to you about eating meat and you both log on at the same time. I assume your may just be a account grace has made to cover her self. If its not to much of a problem would a mod be able to check the ip adresses.. i bet they match.
I'm not a part of your discussion? I started this on a completely different topic and now I have you three flooding it with abuse toward one another. I have no control over whoever's consumer choices. Go ahead and check i.p. addresses if it pleases you, but I don't really want you on this discussion board. It's not a war.
not yet but ill will be.
ummmm okay... well you have fun with that.
oh and nice grammar
please stop fighting. i feel that the unleashed family is tearing apart
u know, its kind of a shame about child labour and unfair trade. the thing is with children in places like east timor and parts of africa, theyre just in the wrong place at the wrong time. its the same with animals but i mean being vegan isnt a big deal. its the way that the world should be in my opinion and i think eventually the slaughtering of animals will be frowned upon and people will be vegetarian/vegan.
I'm with this to some extent, I DO care about humans as well as animals it's just that humans have all the power and 80% of the time they abuse that power.
When you're a vegan it is really difficult to find foods that suit those needs (that was the case with me anyway). No one is perfect. You can't buy cruelty-free 100% of the time. No one sells food for someone else's benefit. Otherwise it would be free. We're a society run by the economy. If the only company that sold vegan sweets did some bad things to humans, well I'm sorry but animals have been sacrificed for centuries. Even in a civilisation that's condemns racism, fasicm, discrimation etc, animals still remain voiceless.
Thus, all I can say is "what goes around comes around" to nestle's child labour or whatever you were saying. We, as in everyone here on unleashed, are the ones trying to make a difference. I know I would starve if it meant I could save lives but I can't do much if I'm dead, lol.
I don't think it's necessarily ideal; but then I don't think it's any worse than buying a salad from Woolworths. And the fact is most people have to buy their food from supermarkets. Fundamentally I am against chain supermarkets as they destroy local businesses, and are also suppliers of all sorts of unethical products.
But the fact is I still have to shop at them due to my budget; I avoid where possible but I buy my rice milk, baked beans etc there so I often feel that resistance is futile when it comes to larger companies. If I could avoid supermarkets I would avoid all chains.
I wanted to say sorry if i offended anyone I did get pretty upset mainly because i didn't appreciate someone coming on here and preaching. I also don't know when to back down. I came from 2 forums where everyone was at each others thoughts all the time and would never want to see this place come to that.
As for the topic.
I eat, drink and wear what ever i want as long as it doesn't have animal products. I buy most of my food from the iga who buy from local farmers so it supports local business though i only go their because its local.
i care more about animals then humans. If a child was crossing the road with a puppy a truck was coming and i could only save one..... yeh i think you can figure out the rest.
isnt one of the major arguements as veg*ns that HUMANS ARE ANIMALS?????
every little bit helps, and if 100 people are vegan and eat oreos compared to 20 people being vegan and the rest eating meat coz its to haed, really, who cares.
i admire the fact that you can restrict you self to only completly ethical products but other people people cant afford it or their parents/providers wont allow it.
and if every one keeps goping on about how good vegan products are that they eat every day one or two more people might go wow thats not so bad and go vegan
