What's wrong with single issue campaigns?

Really?

Well, first of all, I doubt they are setting the animals that were in sow stalls 24.7 (now I think they're only allowed in there 12 hours a day...) or battery hens are being set free (more like chucked into a windowless, eye and nose burning shed on a floor of acidic excrement).
So the animals who 'reap the benefits'(dear oh dear...) of these reforms probably did not know any better/worse... theyre not thinking "oh thank god I only have to stand in that stall half the time" or öh thank god I'm on the ground unable to walk because the floor is muddy with shit and there are bigger birds walking over me breaking my legs and not in a tiny cage"....

As far as I imagine, they are feeling exactly the same as they would have done inside the unreformed conditions... they are feeling immense pain, they suffer hugely psychologically, and they might even wonder why or how to get out.

Rape is a controversial analogy to animal exploitation, but I think a fitting one. What you're suggesting Matt is that if somehow women's groups or social work groups or whatever convinced rapists to beat them softer or use a condom or something, that the victims would be grateful for this, because, well it is 'better'than it could have been.
Come on...

Campaigns for 'free range' eggs have been the focus of many an animal group for 30 years and they're still not here, and that's just a slightly lesser evil that's been campaigned for for one type of abused animal - 30 years gone on trying to get some birds into slightly better conditions....
Imagine if for the past 30 years most animal groups had been identifying the ills of all exploitation and giving the solution not of 'more humane abuse'but of no abuse at all...

Anyway, the point is, I think to say that animals who are effected by these reforms would not think spending years and millions of dollars ccalling for 'better' abuse was a waste of time is ridiculous, if were in their shoes...

Jumps Racing!

straight to the point

As far as I'm concerned not all single issue campaigns are bad, as long as they are part of an overall explicit vegan message, that's  ok. In fact, I think that's importat.

Jumps racing was an important campaign in that it did help the low-hanging fruit drop, and the literature distributed (at least by the people I was working with) and the websites linked to explained the problem with all horse-racing and furthermore, linked to all animal exploitation.

There were however, at some of the demonstrations, extremely worrying points coming from the mouths of some activists - actual encouragement of flat-racing....
Now that to me, and I presume to anyone who wants animal liberation is a very worrying thing..

By no means do I think what has resulted from single issue campaigns hitherto is anywhere near what is ultimately desired. What I do think though is allowing a chicken to rustle its feathers, or allowing a pig to walk and socialize with other pigs, or allowing baby cow calves to be housed in groups with each other is a start. It's start which should be celebrated as a worthy reform, and a good change to the lives of animals - albeit a minor change. I mean, the fact that these animals will be able to experience mobility at all is a signficant thing!

I think this analogy, used frequently by Francione, is seriously flawed and unfair. Unlike rape, agribusiness is an institutionalized practise which affects billions of lives; an institutionalized practice which is engrained and accepted in today's society. Rape is outlawed in today's society, and so, it would be unwise (and obviously stupid) to campaign for 'humane' rape. However, agribusiness is not frowned upon and is not outlawed -- not even close. Rape and agribusiness (very sadly) is like comparing apples and oranges.

Yes, but you have to put it in perspective. In liberation/civil rights movements, 30 years is a very little time... and so, it's unfair to criticize the pace of the movement... it's certainly still in its infant stage and will be for a while. BUT, we are starting to see change nevertheless. PETA, for example, now has the advantage of having a membership base of millions worldwide. With such a large group, the movement's objectives can now be streamlined and we can begin to start seeing industry welfare reform. Just look at my said points.

I suppose its the way you look at it. I look at the changes as less abuse, others will look at it as, like you said, 'better' abuse. Nevertheless, as I said, basic mobility is a start. I look forward to the future though where we can all see better and bigger, more far reaching, and a better quality of reform - which I believe will be the fruits of various, well managed, single issue campaigns.

Indeed, this single issue campaign allowed for the education of the community on the horse racing industry more generally. In the same way, other single issue campaigns allow for more broad education on related issues within those industries.

Okay, I can not see how single issue campaigns are a waste of time...

I'm trying hard to find a way to word this, but it's not coming to me, yet..

But yes, the successful campaigns Matt mentioned wouldn't have been so successful if people were simply saying, "go vegan" rather than pointing out specific issues. Or that's what I think, anyway.

That's it for coherency from me, for the moment

It seems we're heading down the same path again, but whatever.

If there had been a consistent explicit expose of all animal agriculture and a consistent explicit vegan message for 30 years, in my opinion, we would have all these reforms and more, because the industry would be trying very hard to show people it's not all that bad...
People would feel [more] confusion/shame when buying animal products and who knows where we would be.

Also, though rape ( or take your pick of any other violent activity)  may be illegal, it still goes on and thus there are still awareness campaigns etc in relation to it. But they call for an end, not an ímprovement'.
The reforms made, at least many of them, are not significant - as far as I know there is no ban on 'barn-laid' eggs anywhere in the world? I've been into broiler sheds, and to argue that kind of mobility is something worthy is a pathetic. As mentioned, pigs are still confned legally in stalls... it's not significant and, in my view, it is certainly not worthy of millions of dollars and all the energy of the movement to obtain just these few essentially useless reforms. They waste the time and the money of the people on our side which the industry is perfectly happy to fight and go along with.

I'm pretty tired of this argument, it never seems to go anywhere.

And this whole measuring suffering thing is just ridiculous.

Is someone who has cancer and lost their mother better off than someone with cancer who lost their daughter or father or friend or...

it's just a ridiculous thing to do. sure, it might be 'better'... there might be 'less suffering'...
but............ really?

Yeah, I agree, but the general public aren't going to accept the broad umbrella of veganism when it affects so many aspects of their lives. Perhaps if they were exposed to the message for 30 years, yes, but how on earth are we supposed to get the message out? You've seen how hard it is to get an anti-factory farming ad on TV and KEEP it there, and that's really only focusing on a single issue, piggeries. It would never be allowed to air if it were slamming factory farming with regard to all species or even "worse", telling people to "go veg".

Whoever broadcasts a "vegan" message will for a long time be seen as controversial which is why we have to break down the barriers bit by bit, so the average person doesn't say "F*ck it, too hard."