Why don't the omni's (especially the country omni's) believe me ??

Farmers will always say what they do isn't cruel. Some farmers aren't cruel. Some love and tend their stock well. Some also have nothing to do with the transport or slaughter of the animals.

Have you ever pulled up beside a truck carrying sheep? Have you ever seen the ones who have fallen and can't get up cos they are so many sheep crammed in they just literally can't. Of course the driver doesn't see these ones as he's in the drivers seat. He doesn't see them when he 'unloads' the truck as the sheep can get up again by this stage.

As for slaughter not being cruel and it being quick... surely not. Lets slit your throat and see how long it takes you to die.

I think because they've often grown up with it and/or habituated to it, it's not a shock. They've seen what happens and they believe it's the cycle of life. At least they're making an informed decision, unlike about 90% of the population who thinks meat arrives on earth in a shrink-wrapped package with a sticker of rolling green pastures on the front.

I suppose they're desensitised to it. If you live with something it becomes normal. Plus, y'know... denial and such. I know a man who owns a MASSIVE farm, and he told us [when we were little kids] how he slaughtered his animals [how traumatising]. I assure you, it's not the happy little picnic your friend is talking about.

I agree. It's their life, many farmers have never known anything different.

Also, for most farmers, it would be their entire livelihood. Imagine coming to the realisation that the way you earn an income for your family is cruel and inhumane. Their entire lives would be turned upside down, and I would think in many cases farmers have grown up on the farm and taken over their parents business, so they would not have training or knowledge to be able to quickly pick up a job in another field. So, maybe they don't admit the truth to themselves and make justifications for what they are a part of.

I'm sure there are some farmers who don't see them as animals but a dollar sign.

Thanks guys!

Is there anything I can say in response to this because basically it looks like I have just lost the battle and I am wrong.

Or is it just going to open up a new battle I cant fight?

At the end of the day the animal is killed; humanely or not. That's all that matters. Pretty bizarre.

Well you can tell him that you've spoken to someone else who's grown up, lived and worked on a sheep, cattle and pig farm (and pidgeon at one point) - me.

The practices everyone reads about and are shocked by - live transport, muelsing, the rough way they're shorn, slaughter, factory farming, crates..... we're so used to it as common practice that it never occurs to us to think its curel, and its natural to be defensive when someone comes at you with statistics when they've never experienced it for real.

I can tell you that not only do we live transport sheep and cattle in this country for up to 48 (and more, that's the law, not what's adhered to as common practice) we also live export sheep and cattle to other countries for an orthodox style of halal meat (where it needs to be blessed and slaughtered live and then consumed within a certain period). This is weeks and weeks packed into crates on ships. There's been many calls for Australia to outlaw the practice, but the fact is, were the largest live exporter and we're unlikely to stop because it's a huge industry for us.

Farrowing stalls are designed to stop mothers crushing their piglets, but that doesn't make them any less cruel, only necessary because the only profitable way to farm pigs is to factory farm and pigs in small spaces will crush and eat their young. The only certified free range pig farms are a few in the UK and their meat is worth hundreds of dollars a kilo.

Sheep and cattle are slaughtered in a variety of ways in Australia, most non halal meat is shocked and then has their throat slit, some are clubbed. It sounds horrible, but it's generally considered to be fairly humane. Of course the most humane way to kill an animal is via general anesthetic followed by lethal injection, but thats not viable. Next comes shooting them through the brain, but thats not viable on a large scale either. you cannot 'humanely' kill animals any better than they way we do it for large scale meat production.

As you were saying, most farmers will argue that some cruel practices are necessary for the well being of the animals (farrowing stalls and crates are a bad example, because technically theyre not necessary if you free range farm.) Muelsing and shearing are a good example of this. Merino sheep (the ones that are bred for their wool, not meat) have been 'line bred' (bred to enhance certain characteristics and encourage a type) to the point where they cannot exist without being shorn. Their wool becomes so heavy that after a few years their joints give out and they are blind from the wool over their eyes. This is a result of human interference, but nevertheless it remains so.

Muelsing is necessary in Aus because we have blow flies. in abundance. when we bought sheep here and started farming them, we also had to solve the problem of fly strike. Do not think that being fly blown is preferable to being muelsed. Muelsing is horrible and undoubtedly incredibly painful,  but so is having your rotting flesh being eaten by maggots until you eventually die of infection. Again, its the result of bringing sheep to an incompatible climate, human intervention, but it remains so.

One thing no-one ever seems to mention is drenching....I always found that more distressing to watch than the other things. (Each animal is dragged through a shallow trough filled with water and pesticides to cure lice and other beasties, it burns their eyes and mouths and the distress of being forced through the water is great.)

Your statistics wont be totally accurate, and they certainly wont be the practice of every farmer, so you will always have your arguments countered, but you're not wrong.