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Studying vet science?

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Steph* Steph* NSW Posts: 49
21 15 Nov 2010
Yes sorry its a lab i.e. practical lesson in which live animals are brought in (usually from the pound or greyhound racing) and are worked on (to teach the students) and then killed at the end of it. Or killed for further study.
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Squaawk  -  The Voice Squaawk - The Voice Ethiopia Posts: 118
22 11 Dec 2010
Biophiliac said:
t doing Vet science, but I just finished first year Biology, which is what all the vet students need to take as well.



I am Latrobe Uni and im doing a degree in wildlife conservation and Zoology and yeah unfortunately i have also had to do dissections.. This was a VERY challenging thing for me and still is..But i too got to a point where i thought.. If i want to work within this industry.. unfortunately i am going to have to do some form of dissections.. as it is a prerequisite for most biology subjects and I know it sounds bad..and looks like im going against everything i belive and stand for.. but I know that through it all.. i will have the chance to do some very great stuff in saving animals in the long term..

Luckily most of our dissections use either road kill.. so at least their bodies were being used for a greater purpose..

HOWEVER.. please i want to make it clear that i personally do NOT condone dissections overall and this was very hard for me to decide to do.. but i did it for all future animals out there that i will try and help..

Unfortunately most uni's especially in roles like vet science.. you need to do dissections so you understand their whole body and biology..

My advice if u do decide to do it.. is try and encourage other students to respect the dead bodies and help them appreciate the info that these animals offer us.. and i always had a little prayer or i guess like a few moments of silence for the animal before i ever cut them up.. to give them thanks for sacrificing themself for it all (not that they have any say in the matter).. but yeah. I always treated them with so much respect..

I know its a hard and very fine line to tread.. but just think of all the animals youd be helping i guess?..



xoxoxo
snail
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Squaawk  -  The Voice Squaawk - The Voice Ethiopia Posts: 118
23 11 Dec 2010
Steph* said:
Yes sorry its a lab i.e. practical lesson in which live animals are brought in (usually from the pound or greyhound racing) and are worked on (to teach the students) and then killed at the end of it. Or killed for further study.
Why were they killed at the end the prac??? thats terrible.

I enrolled into an animal physiology subject last semester.. and i dont regret one bit dropping that subject... it disgusted me the way i heard stories of how they had to look at a dead toad and so the teacher would kill the toads in front of the students in an apparently "humane way".. humane my ass... students ran out crying, etc..

The teachers just lucky i wasnt there coz i would have caused the most vocal and biggest scene.. I just cant understand how people end up in the animal industry one way or another.. but they just appear to have no one ounce of care, respect or interest in the animals welfare.. its like.. what the $#?? Why do you work with animals then??
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Jacqui T Jacqui T NSW Posts: 796
24 11 Dec 2010
Im currently doing Animal Studies in TAFE and will go on to Veterinary Science. I must state that you will have to disect animals and it is not easy. You will also have to euthanize and have been told that you have to put a bullet through the head of a cow to show you can put down larger animals. Its going to be depressing and some of it quite wrong, but Im willing to take the guilt of the bad on my shoulders to help more lives in the future.

Also, I've had many teachers and that tell me to go into Animal Technology because there's more money in it, but its not worth the inhumane treatment of the animals they research upon so I hope you don't go on to that.
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Sy Sy ACT Posts: 1
25 2 Sep 2011
Hi Alanna!

I'm so glad to hear you are interested in studying to become a veterinarian and are unwilling to compromise your ethical beliefs in order to do so! And lovely to hear you're a vegan - there certainly aren't many at all in the veterinary degree ...I'm a current veterinary student at the University of Sydney, and am also a vegan (though I only began this year)!

I definitely believe you will be able to study veterinary science without having to compromise your ethical standards, though this may also depend (somewhat) on your choice of university - I believe Murdoch University and the University of Sydney would provide the most appropriate curricula for this purpose.

Fortunately, the University of Sydney Veterinary Faculty is leading in animal welfare practices compared to other universities in Australia. We (and Murdoch vet students) are not required to conduct terminal surgeries (as some Aus. vet schools still do), and you will certainly not be required to perform any live animal experiments. Most importantly, our veterinary faculty has a policy here: http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/future_students/undergraduate/animal_welfare.shtml  which states that they ceased the killing of animals specifically for educational purposes in the mid-90's (more like the year 2000, though). Hence, it is necessary for them to adhere to these claims, and if you believe anything in the degree contradicts this, you have every right to declare it.

While we participate in dissections upon dogs (starting from 1st year), the cadavers we  practice on are ex-racing greyhounds and pound (shelter) dogs that have been euthanised independently of our usage of them. Unfortunately, the ex-racing greyhounds are essentially "wastage" from the excessively bred greyhound racing industry, comprising of greyhounds that are no longer considered profitable to their owners. Similarly, the pound dogs we receive have usually been euthanised due to overpopulation at their respective pounds; i.e. they are often healthy dogs. Therefore, these dogs are not actually "ethically-sourced" forms of learning, since "ethically-sourced" is defined as cadavers that have been obtained due to animals dying naturally, in an accident, or due to medical reasons. We also use abattoir specimens for some of our dissections – and while these are similarly independent by-products from an industry – they are not classified as ethically-sourced.

In general most students are unperturbed by conducting dissections upon these specimens (potentially - in part - due to rapid desensitisation), and for the reason that the dogs and abattoir animals have been killed independently of our educational purposes. However, if you do feel that using these sources oppose your ethical beliefs, then you are absolutely entitled to apply for Conscientious Objection (http://sydney.edu.au/vetscience/documents/policies/Conscientiousobjectiionpolicy.pdf) in which case the Vet Faculty are obliged to provide you with alternative learning resources to enable you to gain the same skills and learning objectives you would otherwise have acquired. This would most probably be in the form of obtaining ethically-sourced cadavers (i.e. deceased dogs willingly donated by clients), or potentially utilising innovative technologies such as simulators (or plastinated models/video demonstrations, etc).

I definitely encourage you to check out some resources covering this area. Dr Andrew Knight is a vegan vet who actually led a very publicised campaign in the late 90’s to initiate the first Conscientious Objection policy in Australia (he was at Murdoch University), after which my university immediately followed suit. He conducted extensive work to achieve elimination of invasive animal use in the veterinary degree.

You can find his Guide to Conscientious Objection here (as others have already mentioned): http://www.interniche.org/AKCOGuide.pdf  …it contains some very inspiring stories from himself and other students who have fought for their right to conscientiously object, and provides material to enable you to effectively conscientiously object. (Though they were required do participate in much more invasive procedures which fortunately you will not have to encounter if you enter this veterinary degree).

You can also find a lot more info and fantastic resources from Dr Knight here: http://www.learningwithoutkilling.info/pages/resources.htm

I absolutely enjoy participating in my veterinary degree - we have some fantastic lecturers, and the material we learn (as well as the prac work we get the opportunity to partake in) is fascinating (albeit substantial!) While you will encounter a range of opinions, and learn that not all vets necessarily prioritise animal welfare, it will be your own interest which will drive you forward and keep you motivated! And, just remember, you always have the power to question and demand the highest ethical standards. ..I definitely hope you will not be deterred from your passion to become a veterinarian! ...Hope this helps a little! And many apologies for writing so much!!

Cheers and all the best!
Sy
(University of Sydney Animal Welfare Society) wave
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Mean people wear fur Mean people wear fur QLD Posts: 1087
26 2 Sep 2011
Steph* said:
Yes sorry its a lab i.e. practical lesson in which live animals are brought in (usually from the pound or greyhound racing) and are worked on (to teach the students) and then killed at the end of it. Or killed for further study.
At the end of it. THE END?!

That's barbaric and sounds like something out of a horror movie.
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Catyren Catyren WA Posts: 542
27 2 Sep 2011
Mean people wear fur said:
Steph* said:
Yes sorry its a lab i.e. practical lesson in which live animals are brought in (usually from the pound or greyhound racing) and are worked on (to teach the students) and then killed at the end of it. Or killed for further study.
At the end of it. THE END?!

That's barbaric and sounds like something out of a horror movie.
They're under anaesthetic when they're worked on. I've heard some vet students talking about it before. They work on the animals as they would in an actual vet setting. They're usually euthanased at the end.
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