Why All the Fuss?

I like cupcakes

That is all

Hey Daniel, Thanks for the response. It's great that you came back for a chat

Out of interest what are your personal feelings on factory farming? I know a lot of people who eat meat, who still oppose the practices of factory farming and will never support such industries.

This is true. And I'd add to that that the industry has decided to voluntarily phase out their use of sow stalls. This would never have happened if shoppers had not sent the supermarkets a clear message that they wanted better standards for animals (which was a direct result of our campaigning).

It's worth noting that this change will only be fully implemented by the end of 2017 and only applies to sow stalls. It will still be permitted for sows to be locked in farrowing crates (for up to a few weeks) - again restricting their movement. This just illustrates that the problems facing pigs in factory farms extend well beyond sow stalls. Many people feel the best way to ensure animals aren't treated cruelly is simply not to provide funding to those industries.

This is true. My apologies. I was trying to avoid making my post any longer than it had to be, but in doing so that comment wasn't exactly accurate. Personally, I would no sooner volunteer to have an elastic ring tied around my balls till they went black and dropped off than I would have them cut off without pain relief. Would you be comfortable seeing either of these procedures done to a dog?

It'll be a good day when they no longer do these two procedures! I cringe, every time I imagine it. Again, I would say that the best way to ensure these animals don't have to endure these practices or similar is to simply not support the industries that do them.

It's true that not all land is viable for growing veggies. It's also true that it takes much less land to produce plants to feed directly to humans, than it does to produce crops to feed to livestock to then feed to humans (obviously this doesn't address the issue of grazing animal.. but see below re that). So freeing up land that is used to grow crops for livestock, could provide much land to grow crops for humans.

Personally, I do not feel that we should put a bunch of cattle on all the land we have no other use for. You're right that we have a dry continent. What comes with being a dry continent is having a fragile ecosystem. Sadly, Australasia has the highest rate of species extinction in the world. One of the leading causes of species extinction is land clearing. And one of the main reasons for land clearing is livestock production. When you join the dots, there's a troubling connection there.

Introduced, hoofed animals like sheep and cattle are incredibly damaging to our ecosystem. Unless we want Australia to become drier, then it seems to me that we'd be better off not filling our fragile landscape with water-intensive, hoofed animals. Wouldn't you agree?


Daniel, I'm keen to know... as someone who has seen much of the livestock industry, are there any practices that do not sit well with you?

Of course there are practices that dont sit well with me as i have stated in other posts no farmer likes to see animals mistreated.  From a personal level i dont support caged egg production or intensive pork production.  The statements above you have made are very valid points and i commend you for them it seems you actually know what your talking about my problem with alot of the people on your forum is they are not that well informed they make statements which are completly misleading or just plain lies to push there point of view.  To reply to one of your statements i agree that Australia has the worst record of species extinction for the past 200 years and it is because of land clearing.   But lets not forget that Australia was only discovered 230 years ago and alot of the land clearing was for humans not to feed livestock lets also not forget that more trees are planted by the farming sector than any other community group.

I will not completely disagree with this, though I doubt it is as sinister as telling lies. If anything, ignorance is usually the main culprit, to which I attribute it not only to this forum, but amongst ags and...well...pretty much everyone - which is why discussion is important to trade ideas and inform one another

I also think it's too simplistic and unfair to lump all farmers into one category. Likewise for animal rights people (as you can probably already tell on this forum)

This I did not know. Do you have a source to back this claim?.....please?

Please copy the misleading lies that you encountered.

This is true. My apologies. I was trying to avoid making my post any longer than it had to be, but in doing so that comment wasn't exactly accurate. Personally, I would no sooner volunteer to have an elastic ring tied around my balls till they went black and dropped off than I would have them cut off without pain relief. Would you be comfortable seeing either of these procedures done to a dog?

. I've seen lambs reactions upon having the elastic band put on their tails/testicles and they are clearly extremely uncomfortable at least for a day or so.
There has to be a better option for them but obviously it's not economical for the farmers to provide pain relief/surgical procedures large scale etc.

Daniel, having so much experience in the animal agriculture industry you would think of all people, you would understand why compassionate/empathetic individuals would be opposed to many of the industry practices. We all get by quite happily without the consumption/use of animal products, we all still eat fantastic food (at least those of us that can cook)
Why do you have a problem with us feeling the way we do about animal ag? Yes you may feel annoyed due to many of us stating misinformation in relation to some details but we've got the bulk of our beliefs sitting right with us, we don't see the need to use and abuse animals. Many things that are done to animals in the ag industry would horrify the public if done to a domestic dog, or a child would they not? and we merely choose not to discriminate.

So regardless of details and the nitty gritty processes etc most of us don't even agree with taking wool of a sheeps back so your not going to change our views on meat eating or animal ag.

This I did not know. Do you have a source to back this claim?.....please?
[/quote]

I actually thought they cut them all down, but I don't know too much about it.
58% of Australian bushland cleared for livestock farming is the only stat I know.. (maybe I added the cleared bit?)
You only need to drive down the east coast of Australia and mostly it's just cleared land full of cows.

Ssshh don't tell em that yet!

Oh yeah well maybe he will... if he can find a meat that doesn't take life, doesn't cause harm, doesn't cause pollution

here is the gov land use stats
http://adl.brs.gov.au/mapserv/landuse/pdf_files/Web_LandUseataGlance.pdf

Regardless of how many trees the animal ag industry has planted, surely it wouldn't even begin to equal out the greehouse gases created in the rearing and processing of meat.

There is a good reason tail docking was banned, if it's demmed cruel for dogs then it should be for all animals.