Why All the Fuss?

It also significantly increases the risk of prolapse if done too close to the stump of the tail. If you don't know what prolapse is, I'll leave you to look it up... but just be warned it's not pretty.

And ultimately, who would want to deprive sheep and pigs of the chance to wag their tail when they are happy?

Thanks mate. And likewise it's a pleasure to have you come on here with an open mind for a healthy discussion

Great! This we can happily agree upon
These are the first issues I learnt about, and which led me to wonder what else might be going on that I don't know about. To my mind, they remain the worst practices and are what I focus the bulk of my efforts on stopping.


I understand this concern, and this can be problematic from our point of view as well - because if you've heard someone quote bad facts once it makes it all the easier to dismiss the whole message from there on in. For this reason, Animals Australia is very meticulous about ensuring all the information we provide is accurate (often citing govt/industry sources).

I'd also say this issue of using bad facts arises across the board when people are expressing their opinion on many issues - not just animals. As Sixth Sense has said, I think misleading info is presented with mistaken sincerity more often than with intent to deceive. There is a lot of inaccurate information (both from AR activists and the ag industry) and just trawling through the net it's difficult to differentiate fact from exaggeration.

Having said that, in essence, I believe that one of the core reasons for going veg is so simple that it does not require a thorough knowledge of the industry to make the decision. It boils down to this:
You don't need to dig far to see that there are some cruel practices in animal ag. This raises the issue that when profits compete with the interests of animals there is always the risk that the animals' interests will be compromised and without seeing first hand every animal you eat being raised, it's near impossible to be sure the animal on your plate did not suffer (and even then, trucking to slaughter unavoidably causes some stress).

We can live a happy healthy life without eating animals. So if you wish to cause as little suffering to other creatures as possible, then the best way to achieve this is simply not to eat animals.

Personally, I am not overly sentimental about animals - and I know many other vegans who are similar. I don't feel a particular affinity for animals. Sure, they're pretty cool, but I don't have any pets. For me, the key is that suffering is a negative experience for anyone and the world would be a better place with less of it. Therefore I want to minimise the unnecessary suffering I cause to others (human or non-human).

Would you agree that minimising suffering is a worthy endeavour?

^^^^  ... personally i dont find tail docking wit rings a issue, and i dont want people on unleashed to think of me as a "troll" . but when i docked my lambs tail and balls he didnt even care . we put the rings on and he didnt move and i had him sitting on my lap dad out the ring on and he licked my hand and once the rings were on he waled off and started eating and he never once showed any signs of pain.  plus did somw1 write some thing about we shouldnt sheer sheep? -sorry my internet is messing up - . but we need to sheer sheep, otherwise they can get heat stroke , or have a heart attack . and if they have to bee shorn u might as well use the wool . sorry just thought i would share

We had two sheep when I lived in W.A. I was so upset when my parents told me that they had to be shorn, I thought they would be hurt, but in the heat it had to be done. I was only about 5 years old, so to me it felt like they were being abused

From what I remember in biology wool actually gives them an insulation effect making them cooler in the heat and warmer in winter, which is why they use wool as insulation in homes.

I believe it's the lanolin which protects their skin.

Possibly but my point was they are naturally equipped for hot and cold climates and don't need to be sheered.

So are dogs, but we still cut their fur for their own comfort in the harsh climate.

Yes in some cases but I was referring to the comment saying sheep need to be sheered.

I know, and I'm saying that they do need to be shorn.