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Meat does not originate in celaphane

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Shooter VIC • Posts: 117

11 6 May 2011

shanii said:

Shooter said:

Hey,

As we all know, meat is not grown if the super markets, and something we can all agree on is the worrying amount of people that seem to think (or ignore the fact) that animals have had to die for the meat they are eating. (Often the very same people that criticise hunting)

I recently read a post on surrounding growing meat in school (well it was actually on the way the animals we kept but I want to devieate away from that and focus on on comment) , this comment was 'i dont think we shoud have the killing side of ag'. Really I think this is wrong, do we really want to further distance children from the way they get their meat. (Assuming the school already sells meat the a tuckshop and that the animals are kept humanly until death.) Is it not better that the children actually see where their meat come from, rather than just from some factory?

So, what I am asking, do you think children should be shown the side of meat production that they rarely see? or should it be hidden away from them so the dirty work can be done behind closed doors and the meat can keep coming from some random factory?

Thanks for reading my long post.

Ps. Sorry if it a bit hard to understand, sometimes I find it hard to articulate my self properly

hehehe that was me that said that cloud9

... i think children and teens should be educated in were there meat comes from, but when the animals are at school the kids get to play with them and they grow attached to the animals ( not all of course but a fair few do ) and when the animals are slaughted the teachers joke about it and some kids are destressed about the animas been killed . the animals ( this is my school i dont know about the rest ) arnt kept in the nicest conditions. 3 examples of those are:

1. the rabbits are in small cages were they can bearly move around, i have one doe that was a breeder at the school and from been on hard wired floors ( the cages are in the air and have no bedding) she has cripple bones in her feet and has weak and bent in ward knees - Puzzle ( rabbit ) had to have a few operations to correct it but she was in so much pain, it was unvearable to walk. they are in a dark and dirty shed were there is no light at all!, and the smell is horrible wlking in there. i have spoken to the ag teachers but they dont care. i did report them to the department of edu and P.I and the RSPCA but nothing was done. i clean out the rabbit area when ever possible and give them fresh food and water every day. what does this teach kids?

2. the sheep - there is one sheep i noticed has cancer tumors over her body, she has large tumers hanging off her every were, she also is under weight and has a sore foot and swollen hock, i have offered to pay for vet bills and even buy her off them for wat ever price they want - they contiunky put her in lamb but she loses the lambs ( last two times she fell pregnet ) one of the lambs survived the last pregnency, but she was too weak and ill to look after him and she rejected him - to be honest im amazed she survived , but i got the lamb becouse the ag teachers asked if i could take him so i did , i reared him from 3 days old and today he is a happy and healthy 10 month old sheep happy

.. what does this teach students?

3. the pigs werent provided with water or mud to roll in and had no shelter, both the gilts got sun cancers all over there ears, nose and around there eyes and tail. both began to lose weight and there personailities changed . it was really sad seeing them like this. i loved those piggys soo much... what does this teach kids?

also we got dairy calfs and both of those died within 3 months, one was really sick, i told the teachers he wasnt well but they said he is fine, and bam he died within a week. the other calf was tired up to a post for the night ( i dont know why) and he was found the next morning strangled... this was a horrible site to see when we went doen to the ag farm cry

...

wat i ment by my comment was wouldnt it be better to teach people on how to correctly look after the animals? inseted of slaughtering them?

I wasn't saying what you said was wrong, haha. I mean, if they are being treat badly (and what you are describing must be breaking some sort of law) then by all means I am against it, however I think if the animals are kept in reasonable conditions then it is only a good thing that teens are shown the truth. Explain to them at the start that if they get involved with the animals they must accept in a couple of months/weeks (what ever time frame) they will have to say goodbye to the animals.

I'm just sick of meat eaters the protest against hunting and then go home and have stake for dinner.

..1 TAS • Posts: 2265

12 6 May 2011

Shooter said:

See, I disagree with you their. I believe that young adults should be able to make their own desions in life, and only presented with the raw facts. So, if they are shown at an age (when they can form opinions. I.E not prep students, secondary school students) they will be able to either A.Eat meat and know what goes on (not claim ignorance) or B. They can not eat meat. Not have it both ways, e.g eating meat then condemning hunting.

Oh, I see, I thought we were talking about young children. (Primary school.) If it's secondary students then yes, I agree with you. happy

Shooter VIC • Posts: 117

13 6 May 2011

Lars said:

Shooter said:

wait, why where they traumatized, what did they think veal was? Also, what the difference in eating a 2 year old cow and a 2 week old cow?

because baby animals are cute and the thought of killing baby animals to many people is terrible

people don't think to deeply about food, i mean these days things are handed to us on a plate so why would people think much about it, and many people don't eat veal so they wouldn't think about it.

but just the fact that milk exists for baby calves contrary to the idea that milk flows like a tap and we may as well drink it if it's not being used

I was pointing out how irrational this is. It is rediculas that as soon as something is a baby it has to be protected at all cost, and every become disgusted that they are killed but it is okay to have an older cow killed for meat.

Lars NSW • Posts: 825

14 6 May 2011

yes i know...you can say how irrational it is but arguing won't change the fact that people view baby animals with more affection than adult animals

for example... lambs are alot cuter than grown sheep, I don't know the psychological information on why visually pleasing things trigger a more emotional response, but it just does.

Lars NSW • Posts: 825

15 6 May 2011

sorry I don't want to get into an argument or anything, but yes... it is completely irrational.

follz NSW • Posts: 105

16 6 May 2011

The point at which the disconnection happens - ie. people not realising the meat on their plate was once a living, breathing, sentient being that died so they could have a tasty meal - is when you are far removed from the living conditions they endured only to be mercilessly slaughtered and the fact that the majority of people have never even been up close to or spent time with any of these magnificent animals (pigs, chickens, turkeys, cows etc).

I'm ashamed to admit I never made that connection, so I understand why people are as they are... although that doesn't really help matters when the barbarities of the meat, egg and milk industries continues unabated as we sit idle and chat.

Since I've become a vegan, I've made at least a dozen people realise that the animals they eat are no different to their pets (among other things) - the only difference is that they never knew the slaughtered animal. Many are now vegan!

Personally, I think children shouldn't be spared the horrors of the reality simply because they MUST know or how else will they ever make an informed decision?

+ 3

Mean people wear fur QLD • Posts: 1087

17 6 May 2011

follz said:

Personally, I think children shouldn't be spared the horrors of the reality simply because they MUST know or how else will they ever make an informed decision?

This is how I feel.
I became Vegetarian during primary school (11) and went Vegan at 13 - I am happy that I know the truth and am doing all I can for animals.
I often wish that my classmates (I'm in year 9) knew more about where their food came from so I wouldn't get all the stupid remarks.

Shooter VIC • Posts: 117

18 6 May 2011

Mean people wear fur said:

follz said:

Personally, I think children shouldn't be spared the horrors of the reality simply because they MUST know or how else will they ever make an informed decision?

This is how I feel.
I became Vegetarian during primary school (11) and went Vegan at 13 - I am happy that I know the truth and am doing all I can for animals.

Is it the way animals ARE killed that worries you or the fact that they are killed full stop.

For instance if you saw a cow get killed, instantly with little to know pain would you any problems with that? I know it's off topic, but i'm interested to hear the answer

Mean people wear fur QLD • Posts: 1087

19 6 May 2011

Shooter said:

Question 1: I have a problem with both, really. The way most animals are killed is brutal and horrible but I also can't see a reason for their deaths. There is no need for a life to be taken.

Question 2: This is an easy question for me to answer as I HAVE seen a cow killed - my family owns a farm so I've seen cows (and other animals) killed first hand. Fortunately, the animals that are on the farm now are not killed.

I still have a problem with it, yes. A life is a life. Seeing the dead, lifeless eyes of what was once a beautiful living being only reinforces my beliefs about Veganism.
If an animal HAD to be killed (in whatever hypothetical situation), of course I would rather it be quick and painless, but I see no reason for the killing of other living beings.

Ellim United Kingdom • Posts: 480

20 6 May 2011

Shooter said:

Although this wasn't aimed at me I'm going to throw in my two cents.

It's both. I have massive problems with the way that many animals are raised and killed. More than that, I have a problem with the way that animals are killed and the fact that there are people who believe that by buying small, independent farm organic meat they are somehow getting an ethically superior product. Yes, in most cases these animals live 'better' lives, but the are killed in the same slaughterhouses, with the same violent and horrific means.

Second to that, the biggest problem that I have is with the use of animals full stop. I personally, as a vegan, do not believe that animals are here for human use. That's not just food animals, either, but ALL animals (which is why I have a problem with zoos, like many others on this site).

Long story short: Animals aren't ours to use or manipulate, they're not here for our entertainment or our consumption or our safety.

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