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Meat does not originate in celaphane

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Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
21 6 May 2011
Shown yes. Taught and made to do it for a class? No.
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
22 7 May 2011
shanii said:
1. the rabbits are in small cages were they can bearly move around, i have one doe that was a breeder at the school and from been on hard wired floors ( the cages are in the air and have no bedding) she has cripple bones in her feet and has weak and bent in ward knees - Puzzle ( rabbit ) had to have a few operations to correct it but she was in so much pain, it was unvearable to walk. they are in a dark and dirty shed were there is no light at all!, and the smell is horrible wlking in there. i have spoken to the ag teachers but they dont care. i did report them to the department of edu and P.I and the RSPCA but nothing was done. i clean out the rabbit area when ever possible and give them fresh food and water every day. what does this teach kids?
I don't want to misdirect the thread, but I work in animal research, and there is no way we could house rabbits like this. Ours. havr pens, with straw bedding, and boxes to hide out in. This came about because. research indicated that in small cages rabbits would often develop spinal problems, or could even break their own back when kicking in such confined spaces. I would have expected this to be covered under the 'Prevention of cruelty to animals act'. It is cruel and seemingly unnecessary.

shanii said:
wat i ment by my comment was wouldnt it be better to teach people on how to correctly look after the animals? inseted of slaughtering them?
How to 'correctly' look after animals is very context dependent.  Also, reality is that part of a lot of agriculture is killing animals.
I suspect the best way to really show kids what food production entails is to take them on a tour of a real farm (if only you could). Using videos and such is very open to criticism due to bias; a criticism I have used myself, and will no doubt again.
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
23 7 May 2011
EJay said:
Shooter said:
Is it the way animals ARE killed that worries you or the fact that they are killed full stop.
...
More than that, I have a problem with the way that animals are killed and the fact that there are people who believe that by buying small, independent farm organic meat they are somehow getting an ethically superior product.  Yes, in most cases these animals live 'better' lives, but the are killed in the same slaughterhouses, with the same violent and horrific means.
I'd argue that if the animals are treated better while alive then the product is ethically better.
EJay said:
Long story short: Animals aren't ours to use or manipulate, they're not here for our entertainment or our consumption or our safety.
As someone who thinks that evolution is. fact (in general if not in present ideas of specifics) and doesn't believe in a divine being, creator, or the like,  I don't think animals (or humans for that matter) exist for any particular reason.
Teaching how to maintain an animal in good health seems to me to be a very worthwhile part of an agriculture education; at least while animal farming takes place. Teaching effective and painless slaughtering methods would also seem wise.
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Shooter Shooter VIC Posts: 117
24 7 May 2011
Callum said:
Shown yes. Taught and made to do it for a class? No.
Why not have it as a class? It's doesn't really bring it to home unless you experience first hand.
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Mean people wear fur Mean people wear fur QLD Posts: 1087
25 7 May 2011
Shooter said:
Why not have it as a class? It's doesn't really bring it to home unless you experience first hand.
While I agree it would have a greater impact if students were to experience it first hand, I think that showing them footage from factory farms, broiler farms, etc would work just as well. Why have more animals killed when there is an alternative?
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katherooni katherooni SA Posts: 209
26 7 May 2011
shanii said:
Shooter said:
Hey,

As we all know, meat is not grown if the super markets, and something we can all agree on is the worrying amount of people that seem to think (or ignore the fact) that animals have had to die for the meat they are eating. (Often the very same people that criticise hunting)

I recently read a post on surrounding growing meat in school (well it was actually on the way the animals we kept but I want to devieate away from that and focus on on comment) , this comment was 'i dont think we shoud have the killing side of ag'. Really I think this is wrong, do we really want to further distance children from the way they get their meat. (Assuming the school already sells meat the a tuckshop and that the animals are kept humanly until death.) Is it not better that the children actually see where their meat come from, rather than just from some factory?

So, what I am asking, do you think children should be shown the side of meat production that they rarely see? or should it be hidden away from them so the dirty work can be done behind closed doors and the meat can keep coming from some random factory?

Thanks for reading my long post.

Ps. Sorry if it a bit hard to understand, sometimes I find it hard to articulate my self properly
hehehe that was me that said that  cloud9 ...  i think children and teens should be educated in were there meat comes from, but when the animals are at school the kids get to play with them and they grow attached to the animals ( not all of course but a fair few do ) and when the animals are slaughted the teachers joke about it and some kids are destressed about the animas been killed . the animals ( this is my school i dont know about the rest ) arnt kept in the nicest conditions. 3 examples of those are:

1. the rabbits are in small cages were they can bearly move around, i have one doe that was a breeder at the school and from been on hard wired floors ( the cages are in the air and have no bedding) she has cripple bones in her feet and has weak and bent in ward knees - Puzzle ( rabbit ) had to have a few operations to correct it but she was in so much pain, it was unvearable to walk. they are in a dark and dirty shed were there is no light at all!, and the smell is horrible wlking in there. i have spoken to the ag teachers but they dont care. i did report them to the department of edu and P.I and the RSPCA but nothing was done. i clean out the rabbit area when ever possible and give them fresh food and water every day. what does this teach kids?

2. the sheep - there is one sheep i noticed has cancer tumors over  her body, she has large tumers hanging off her every were, she also is under weight and has a sore foot and swollen hock, i have offered to pay for vet bills and even buy her off them for wat ever price they want  - they contiunky put her in lamb but she loses the lambs ( last two times she fell pregnet ) one of the lambs survived the last pregnency, but she was too weak and ill to look after him and she rejected him - to be honest im amazed she survived , but i got the lamb becouse the ag teachers asked if i could take him so i did , i reared him from 3 days old and today he is a happy and healthy 10 month old sheep happy .. what does this teach students?

3. the pigs werent provided with water or mud to roll in and had no shelter, both the gilts got sun cancers all over there ears, nose and around there eyes and tail. both began to lose weight and there personailities changed . it was really sad seeing them like this. i loved those piggys soo much... what does this teach kids?

also we got dairy calfs and both of those died within 3 months, one was really sick, i told the teachers he wasnt well but they said he is fine, and bam he died within a week. the other calf was tired up to a post for the night ( i dont know why) and he was found the next morning strangled... this was a horrible site to see when we went doen to the ag farm cry ...

wat i ment by my comment was wouldnt it be better to teach people on how to correctly look after the animals? inseted of slaughtering them?
It taught you to love animals, learn about what they need and how to care for them and now you're vegan (i assume!) How many lives have you saved by doing what you're doing? It must be hard to see those things, and i think you're brave to take care of all those animals and stand up to your teachers.
In the end I think it's better people know, the reason they don't tell us is because its unpleasant. If they do educate, that way there may be more protests to the industry to improve conditions etc. It will never end. We all know that
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Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
27 7 May 2011
Shooter said:
Callum said:
Shown yes. Taught and made to do it for a class? No.
Why not have it as a class? It's doesn't really bring it to home unless you experience first hand.
It's horrible! As much as children need to know these things they shouldn't have the actual thing happen in their schools! They can just watch videos of others doing it.
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Shooter Shooter VIC Posts: 117
28 7 May 2011
Callum said:
Shooter said:
Callum said:
Shown yes. Taught and made to do it for a class? No.
Why not have it as a class? It's doesn't really bring it to home unless you experience first hand.
It's horrible! As much as children need to know these things they shouldn't have the actual thing happen in their schools! They can just watch videos of others doing it.
I'm not saying they will actually kill the animal themselves, just raise the animals, have it killed by a mobile butcher. (those who want to watch/learn can) and then take the meat home, so they understand what that animals have to die.
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TheSixthStitch TheSixthStitch Aruba Posts: 988
29 7 May 2011
For some reason, this conversation brings the following to mind:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bps-xbo8wnA

(there's always a Simpsons reference.. wink )
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Kelly4 Kelly4 VIC Posts: 2
30 20 May 2011
RE:
But most children love animals, so the second direction could arguably be unlikely...

Not unlikely, quite the oppposite...
Anyone remember "Marcus the school sheep" ?
The kids at the school raised him and then decided to send him off to slaughter to be turned into meat rather than keep him as a pet...
I have heard about this at other schools too, with the kids deciding on tasty meat over the animals life.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article6834052.ece
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