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Dietry recomendations to eat fish twice a week

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Jessica14 Jessica14 NSW Posts: 8
1 11 May 2011
I want to go vegeterian but i've heard that it is important to eat fish on a regular basis. As a result I am wondering how I can get the nutrients you would normally get from eating fish. Also is this actually reccomendation true or is it similar to the dairy conspiracy.
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
2 11 May 2011
Jessica14 said:
I want to go vegeterian but i've heard that it is important to eat fish on a regular basis. As a result I am wondering how I can get the nutrients you would normally get from eating fish. Also is this actually reccomendation true or is it similar to the dairy conspiracy.
Flaxseed oil provides a good quantity of short-chain Omega-3 fatty acids (which are an essential fatty acid), which I believe is the key reason for fish consumption recommendations. However, the human body is rubbish at converting this to the long-chain Omega-3 fatty acid DHA (and to a lesser, but not much lesser, extent EPA), both of which are found in high quantities in fish (see http://www.foodsforlife.org.uk/nutrition/conversion-LNA-DHA-EPA.html).
EPA is an intermediate step in the conversion from ALA to DHA (http://www.dhaomega3.org/Overview/Conversion-Efficiency-of-ALA-to-DHA-in-Humans), and with the correct dietary balance sufficient ALA can be obtained (don't eat too much omega-6 short-chain; it'll screw with the conversion).
Various shops sell vegan (algae-based) omega-3 supplements:
http://www.v-pure.com/
http://www.opti3omega.com/
Mind you, I don't know how these are manufactured, nor whether the algae itself is GM. If it is though, that's awesome - technology win!

There seem to be several consequences of insufficient long-chain Omega-3 fatty acids. First, Omega-6 long-chain will substitute in the brain for Omega-3 when insufficient Omega-3 is available, and high omega-6 levels in the brain have been associated with higher rates of depression (and other things, from memory). Insufficient Omega-3 may also lead to heart and vascular problems.

The short version - if your protein and omega-3 long-chain intake is sufficient (particularly the latter, which you will almost certainly need to supplement unless you eat a lot of weird sea vegetables) you should be ok.
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jack jack VIC Posts: 1463
3 11 May 2011
people say fish are important because of omega 3, fish get them from plants they eat

i am perfectly healthy and have not had fish is over 4 years
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
4 11 May 2011
jack said:
people say fish are important because of omega 3, fish get them from plants they eat

i am perfectly healthy and have not had fish is over 4 years
Which is great for you, but when thinks like high-n studies of things like heart disease suggest that insufficient omega-3 long-chain fatty acids probably increase the risk of heart problems, I'd run with the studies myself.

Related to heart disease and associated sudden death:
n-3 fatty acids and cardiovascular disease (review article)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16841857
Key statement:
The results of prospective cohort studies indicate that consuming fish or fish oil containing the n-3 fatty acids eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) and docosahexaenoic acid (DHA) is associated with decreased cardiovascular death, whereas consumption of the vegetable oil-derived n-3 fatty acid a-linolenic acid is not as effective.

Fish Consumption, Fish Oil, Omega-3 Fatty Acids, and Cardiovascular Disease
http://circ.ahajournals.org/cgi/content/full/106/21/2747 (free article)

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18937898
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15580322
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18641046

There's plenty more. It's a well researched area.
Many of these articles can be viewed free by clicking the 'read' link in the upper-right side of the screen (above 'related citations').

Related to psychosis symptoms (omega-3 long chain may reduce risk)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20504323

Related to depression symptoms (meta-analysis - i.e. review of a lot of studies) - may reduce risk of depression, or improve depression symptoms.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20439549
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Beemo Beemo United States Posts: 1259
5 11 May 2011
Omega 3 is found in plant sources such as seeds, nuts, oils, fruits and vegetables.
http://www.suite101.com/content/vegetarian-omega3-sources-a50910
If you do have trouble maintaining your omega 3 levels, then there are vegetarian/vegan omega 3 tablets available as well. Though if you plan to include certain omega 3 rich foods in your diet then you should have no problems thumb

Here are some products you can purchase with omega 3 (just to name a few):
http://www.melrosehealth.com.au/health_products/Gluten_Free_Organic_Health_Food/omegacare_gold_tablespread.aspx
http://www.bakersdelight.com.au/genericPage.aspx?pageID=1644
http://www.melrosehealth.com.au/health_products/Massage_Oil_Therapy_Products/Sweet-Almond-Oil.aspx
http://www.melrosehealth.com.au/health_products/Gluten_Free_Organic_Health_Food/ABC_nut_spread.aspx
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
6 11 May 2011
Abbiesaurus said:
Omega 3 is found in plant sources such as seeds, nuts, oils, fruits and vegetables.
http://www.suite101.com/content/vegetarian-omega3-sources-a50910
From that page:
Vegetarian omega-3s are converted to the longer-chain fats EPA and DHA inside the body. The conversion rate is consistently low in most people, yet EPA and DHA are the end products that are associated with health benefits like cardiovascular protection and brain health. For this reason, some people choose to take a high-DHA algae supplement.


There are different types of omega 3 (long chain: EPA, DHA; short-chain: ALA). The body is not very good at converting them (the human body that is; some animals do an excellent job, but they need to because their diet hasn't included fish). Basically anything a vegan will typically eat will contain only the short-chain form of omega 3 (ALA). Depending on your perspective, there are either health benefits of sufficient long-chain omega 3 (EPA/DHA) or health risks with insufficient long-chain omega 3.

The summary: an unsupplemented vegan diet, even in conjunction with your body's own conversion system, will probably not give you enough long-chain omega 3. I think it would be sensible to take supplements.

Oh, and new source regarding differences in ALA conversion to EPA/DHA. It was in a very specific population (ADHD) but there is no hypothesised difference in conversion in this population, and it is pretty representative of the general case.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/16188207
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FrancisM FrancisM VIC Posts: 62
7 11 May 2011
Jessica14 said:
I want to go vegeterian ...
I originally read this as vegan. Eggs contain long-chain omega 3 fatty acids. You can actually get omega-3 enriched eggs (achieved by feeding the chickens omega-3 long-chain supplemented food, using the same algae supplements previously discussed; see http://www.farmpride.com.au/Our_Egg_Products.asp?_=Omega-3+Eggs)

They (or maybe even unenriched eggs) may provide enough; I'd check the numbers though for RDI.
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Mondayschild Mondayschild WA Posts: 1452
8 11 May 2011
I've never eaten fish in my whole life, even when I wasn't veg. Hopefully there won't be any long term consequences for me!
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Ellim Ellim United Kingdom Posts: 480
9 11 May 2011
Mondayschild said:
I've never eaten fish in my whole life, even when I wasn't veg. Hopefully there won't be any long term consequences for me!
Me either.

I think, like many things, it's being aware of what your body needs and actively sourcing foods that contain those things.  It's all very well and good to say 'the majority of people...(insert generalisation)' but honestly, the majority of people *don't* know what they need in terms of nutrients, vitamins, minerals etc.

That's why you often find vegans who say they have had blood tests that have been described by their health practitioners as 'perfect' or 'very above average'.
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Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
10 11 May 2011
@ Francis, what are some sea vegtables you could eat which have signifigant amounts of the omega 3 not found in seeds?
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