Inspiration to advocate for animals

I look to activists, not academics.
[/quote]

I think both are equally important... Look at Peter Singer, he'd have to be in the Academics corner, wouldn't he?
[/quote]

But Peter Singer is an activist as well as an academic. That bloke has helped to found a raft of organisations including Animals Australia, Animal Lib Vic, etc. He's founded more groups than he's cooked hot dinners!

Peter Singer is an academic before being an activist; he would never have been in the position to create activism groups without being a highly respected ethicist (and, don't forget that Peter Singer does NOT only concentrate on animal rights ethics.)

There wouldn't be a basis for activism without academia.

And - above and beyond that: I think it's unrealistic to think that EVERY veg*n aspires to be an activist, or looks up to activists or thinks that the ways that some activists go about things is the only way or the right way.  I certainly don't aspire to activism and there are a lot of tactics of activism that I disagree with.

Apart from general PETA tactics (which seem to be the most common complaint- not that I personally have a problem with PETA) what don't you agree with?

Iinteresting discussion, thanks for sharing.

Yes, this is a dilemma. I used to be conservative when I first joined the animal rights movement. However, I feel differently now.

I believe we need people willing to speak the hard line, or else it can become a slippery slope. We are fighting extreme hegemony, where it's culturally acceptable to think we, the animal advocates, are 'fruitcakes' even though people think the same us us ... profiting from animal abuse is WRONG. If we weren't given the labels ("extremists", "animal libbers" etc) by those with the power, the general mass would be on our side fighting with us!

From what I've read/heard of Francione's logic (not much) I agree with. I guess he's a bit angry, after 20 years or more. I know I get disappointed seeing people who were once hard line going soft. And yes, there are now more people eating meat more than ever. We are now exporting cattle to China :o(

Thanks for the different perspectives though and I totally agree we shouldn't bag each other.

I would like to share this realisation I came to after an experience I had to help you understand why I dont' believe animal rights should go backwards and promote freerange or humane killing etc ...

I borrowed Animal Liberation SA's life size pig in a life sized sow stall (fantastic prop) to have on display at a stall I hired a few years ago at the Adelaide Animal Expo.

A couple of (animal rights) volunteers came along to help me and they had free range pork leaflets (I was shocked) to hand out and post cards against sow stalls for people to fill in and mail to a politician.

After a couple of hours I took the postcards off my stand. I noticed people felt good about signing one and watched them trot off smiling, obviously feeling vindicated ... probably went off to order a bacon burger for all I know.

I asked the volunteers to please not hand out the free range leaflets as I had powerful graphic literature from PETA and Vegan Outreach (yes, Matt Ball rocks) and a graphic video playing (PETA's Chew on This).

They argued with me and said "baby steps, you can't expect people to change overnight".

I disagreed and said I did, I stopped eating animals overnight. I was then told I was "different". I totally disagree. Are we all "different" or "better"? No we most certainly are not, we just woke up. I know people can wake up.

Well, they wouldn't part with them. I honestly had to rip the leaflets out of their hands and yell at them. That was terrible.  I said "I've got stuff here to make people who love animals wake up and realise they don't have to eat them. I had a video playing that showed slaughter, bashing, overcrowding, disgusting suffering ... everything normal in the modern meat production facility. If people watched that and decided to buy free range, fine, but I wasn't going to start there.

It's a slippery slope.

We need all the help we can get and I agree fighting each other is crazy. We each need to do what we're comfortable with. But because that stall cost $800 I felt I had the last say. I was happy to send them home and do it alone if I had to, but that didn't happen which was nice. I know I did the right thing though and helped lots of people wake up. Lots of good stories to tell from that experience.

PS. When I said we need people who speak "the hard line" I do not mean being judgemental, like the 'Vegan Police'. That is just awful and offputting. I don't like seeing people slapping each other on the back as if veg*sm is a 'club'. We do it because we want to end animal suffering not pretend we're better than others. That is where veg*ns deserve to be called 'crackpots'.

By hard line I meant abolition.  

Thems is my thoughts though (and I'm entitled to them) LOL!

I like your thoughts, I hope those volunteers understand now.

Usually the term 'vegan police' refers to vegans who criticise other vegans for not being 'vegan enough'. It's said with humour and I personally find it quite amusing.

If anyone hasn't heard it yet, the latest commentary on Abolitionist Approach is reallllllllllllly interesting (it's audio btw). I definitely reccomend it.

... he seriously brings new meaning to "no thrills, no frills" though. So yeh, just be prepared that while it is really, really interesting... it isn't too exciting. :/

I aree. I'm not too bothered about being a *pure* vegan. If I eat some animal derived additive once in a while, I won't lose any sleep. As long as I put my main energy into leafletting and promoting veganism, I'm happy.  The vegan purists really are quite borish.
Matt Ball says he wants "a vegan world not a vegan club".

But he comes across as so arrogant, and I have known activists who have had much more reason to be bitter, and have given so much more (lost loved ones whilst campaiging for Animal Rights, for one example).
I probably agree with what you did in that instance. I showed Meet your Meat at a gig recently. The audience was perfect for MYM. But sometimes, it will depend on the context and the situation.

To me, Francione just pushes out the line "Welfare Bad" despite many instances out there where welfare improvements not increasing demand (like Jordan's stunning prior to slaughter). In science, one only has to find one example disproving an theory for that theory to be rejected.
Agreed - I hope you don't think I am attacking you!
Francione's biggest contribution to the movement seems to have been to create tension &  discord, or provide people an excuse for inactivity. He has managed to gather a fan club of people who dislike Peta, won't work with any other group, or wouldn't do anything themselves and use him to justify their inaction.

As an example I've seen an ALV person proudly state that ALV is the only abolitionist group in Australia, whilst even a 5 minute internet search would show ARA in WA, and then the same people reject Matt Ball's work because he wasn't 'Abolitionist'. Matt Ball's work, in my opinion,  leads the world in peaceful vegan education. Exactly what Francione promotes, it beggars belief! I think the definition of 'abolitionist' to these people means 'written by Francione' like he is some prophet.