Inspiration to advocate for animals

I concur with that ''Discussion of Abolitionist Principles' podcast. I only started to think this way myself a couple of years ago. I think the notions of humane rape and humane torture are indeed parallel to the oxymoron of humane killing etc. People who kill animals just don't care about animals and won't take care fullstop.

Is welfare becoming more popular to be mixed with animal rights? It seems to  be to me. I find this incredibly interesting, I've been thinking about it a lot. My theory is it's because the animal-abusing industries have learnt to fight back with the tactics they use on the great unwashed. ie. hegemony. They've now mastered it on those who were a wake up to it in other forms. How? The abusers throw around statements like "not everyone is going to be a vegetarian" or "animal rights people are extremists" and I worry it's rubbing off and making us doubt ourselves.

It's true that not everyone is going to be a vegetarian ... It's fair to say most likely the people who just don't care about animals, so I don't bother with them. You can tell who's who pretty quickly. I focus on reaching people who care, so what if they don't come veg straight away. But I don't see any point in giving them a soft option ... that's the slippery slope.

When people say bad things about animal rights, it's usually a tactic to shut the movement down, or it's parrotted by people who care but are ignorant they repeat that rubbish to appease subconcious guilt (those ones can still be saved) ... We can't let this defeat us! The great majority of people are compassionate and care, they are the ones we have to  educate

Nope, definately not!  I think you're very cool.  I try to be repectful when discussing this interesting phenomenom, it's difficult to choose the words sometimes. sometimes it's easier not to discuss because it's too darn easy to offend when challenging other's thoughts. But it's good to discuss these things, as long as we're respectful where we disagree.   Hey, I can change my mind, I do that quite a bit. I"m open to learning ... And I've been offended ... then changed my mind too.

I'm the same, I do see both sides of the argument. Since I spend the majority of my activism time Vegan Outreaching, it's kind of academic where I stand on the welfare debate (most of the time!)
This forum is very polite, which is good, people are all playing nice.

I don't agree with preaching or pressuring or generally 'aggressive' behavior.  That old adage: "You catch more flies with honey than vinegar" is true.
I don't think that it's the best way to get the idea of veganism out there as something which is an ordinary, normal part of life.  A lot of people that I speak too feel alienated by the idea that is pushed upon them that to be a good or proper vegan you need to be standing outside KFC handing out flyers - and that's just not true.
In many ways, the people who get targeted by those kinds of campaigns are not going to positively respond to that style - in fact, I think more people are likely to get get on the defensive and that never helps veganism or the cause of veganism.
I find large numbers of people are surprised that I am vegan because I'm not like that; I'm quiet about my veganism, but I feel that I provide a good example of the ease with which a vegan lifestyle can be adopted and how much a compassionate lifestyle is not an inconvenience in normal, everyday life.  If someone talks to me about veganism, or asks me about veganism, I'm more than happy to talk about it - but being vegan is not the only thing in my life and it is not the main defining factor of 'me'.

I don't think that this opinion will be particularly popular in here - but it's just how I feel.

It's ALL good

Someone really wise who's been in the AR movement for a long time said to me a few years ago ... "everyone has their own way of helping the movement and we need EVERYONE to do whatever they can and what they are COMFORTABLE with". I guess that has now become the crux of this discussion.

Although this wasn't the intention of my post. My mention of Gary Francione was entirely innocent. I listened to a podcast and though he made sense. Since getting into this discussion, I've gone back and listened to more and I've now ordered all his books.

He has bought up something I am extremetly interested in now ... ie how proponents of animal rights (people against eating or using animals) can get their own personal beliefs confused by seeking improved standards for animals (welfare) which they honestly dont' believe in. I am interested because I am studying culture which encompasses philosophy, psychology, anthropology, semiotics (study of communication/signs) and more ... which goes to the core of this here dilemma.

This appears to be the same phenomenom as when people who love animals can still eat them or allow their abuse to continue.

Something to think about: When the RSPCA started off all members were vegetarians. It can become a slippery slope if you let people detract you. But as I said earlier of course we can change our minds, I guess it's just a matter of who we find the most influential. Something we need to think about no doubt.

I'm for animal rights. I'm against animals being commodities and recognise they have their own purpose and being ... I do not want them to bee the property for humans. They deserve their own lives free from pain, fear, domination and to do as they chose.