Is going veg a good idea?

Could you please elucidate on your statement please? Don't leave us hanging.

Beef producer? Let's dispense with the euphemisms shall we? You profit off of the death of the animals you raise for slaughter. Personally, I think that gives a much more accurate picture of what you do for a living, don't you think?

The facts and figures stand for themselves, regardless of what you think: It takes at least 10 times the land, resources, energy etc to produce a single pound of meat (on average) than it does to produce a single pound of grain/vegetable/fruit etc.

This, here, is a prime reason why I have no interest in arguing about resources and land degradation with animal 'farmers' simply because it keeps the debate in a comfortable zone for them; they can simply argue all day long about it. However, bring up decency, morals and ethics and they suddenly become either silent or defensive.

Cassie3 said:
Point taken Jesse.  However I am afraid that this planet simply could not sustain it's population on a plant based diet.  It has ( and has always !!) far too many barren spots to grown agriculture.  My history is as follows.  I am a beef producer from Queensland.  I have been involved with beef production and the land for my whole life.  I have a respect for animals regardless of whether they end up on my plate or not.  Along with that respect I also care for  my animals.  I have some very serious issues with Australians who choose to become vegetarians for reasons other than an allergy to meat, in other words ethical reasons.  We are indeed fortunate to live in a country whereby a visit to our local supermarket will offer several differents choice of peanut paste as well as other obscene numbers of indulgences.  
Like it or not we are at the top of the food chain and we humans are carnivores from forever ago.  If it weren't for the human race the animals would self distruct.  Fact.  
I acknowledge that there are some very pathetic excuses for humans who are not at all kind to animals.  Mind you these very people are unable to be kind to their fellow human so what chance has an animal got.  
I have many issues with your extremist views but for now I must go and tend to the weaner cattle we have just weaned off their mothers.  Rest assured they look pretty happy and their mothers likewise, no big things hanging off the udders.  Cheers for now.

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Humans are not carnivores, fact.
How can you have respect for an animal, and then tell us about the calves which you have just weaned from their mothers, which will no doubt be taken away to slaughter.
How were those calves conceived, I bet that wasn't in a respectful manner either.


I would like you to elaborate on the statement "if it weren't for the human race animals would self destruct"
because plenty of animals which are now extinct have become so due to humans, humans are constantly destroying animal habitat, and many species are now even hunted due to their rarity.

Thanks for pointing this out. It's just another example of human arrogance and ignorance when people say animals need human animals to survive... ignoring the countless years they existed before us. Wait, let me rephrase that: The countless years they flourished before us.

Dave counted much of her spiel which I was grateful for as I didn't have to tackle it.

Cassie3, would you be able to provide any facts or evidence to back up any of your claims?

follz said:
Catyren said:
I support a return to family farming. I'm a realist I know that Ia lot of people don't want to stop eating meat, the least they could do is treat the creatures with respect, increase welfare and give them a quick and painless death. A return to family farming would mean more jobs in agriculture, less automation.
Ah... a welfarist I see. A person who advocates a return to 'local produce', 'better treatment' and 'humane slaughter'... always behind the pretense of 'being realistic'. I will say I have a hard time holding back on people like yourself, as in my eyes you are even worse than a carnist.

Actually I would love to see abolutionism come to fruition, but in the mean time the carnist population could at least take steps in the right direction. Advocating welfare to people like cassie3 is generally better accepted than advocating abolutionism. I  advocate for abolution whenever I can. I only said that I would prefer family farms OVER factory farms. It doesn't mean that I think farming animals is right, not at all. I would be veg even if all production animals still were kept in family farms.

It would mean an increase in prices but that's not so much to ask when you consider the massive costs of the current intensive farming system.
Since you mentioned 'better conditions', I can only assume that each and every animal would be given more space to move, is that correct? If so, tell me your plans for the better treatment and conditions of a single lot of 80,000 chickens being raised for slaughter. Where are they kept now? Outside? Inside a giant shed still? Your views are not only completely unsustainable and impractical, but are also demonstrably contradictory when you talk about the expense of factory farming yet advocate better conditions/slaughter which would ultimately cost a lot more.

A return to family farming would mean an increase in price, therefore people would not be able to eat meat as often, therefore demand would drop, therefore less animals would need to be produced. It is unrealistic to think that everyone will go vegan overnight. Some will never, I know this from experience; My uncle will eat meat everyday until the day he dies and he will rub it in a vegetarian's face given the chance. Sadly so many people have this mentality. I don't think it's so much to ask of him for him to at least buy meat that wasn't factory farmed. Factory farming in itself is unsustainable. It is worse than unsustainable. I agree that there is no such thing as humane slaughter, I agree that eating/using animals is completely wrong, but some people are so entrenched in their ways that you just can't change them. It is so unlikely that abolitionism will be realised any time soon so we have to do what we can in the mean time to get rid of the cruellest practices and hope that the future generations can be reached by our message.

Oh dear Follz we are on different pages.  We will just have to agree to disagree.  Take care.  Cheers

Whats with the question 'how were these calves conceived'.  I am sure you are more educated than this statement reflects.  How the .... do you think they were conceived.  And as for the poor weaners ( not calves ) yes they will end up in the slaughterhouse, simple.  In the meantime we will make sure that they are the most well cared for animals.  That is respect.  Simple.

Which particular claims. Time poor just now so give me a couple a day and I will endeavour to explain to you.

Catryen said:
I'm staying that way for life for my health.
The carnist has selfish reasons for doing what he does too. At the end of the day, it's really just all about you

Don't automatically assume that I'm selfish, I am veg primarily for the animals. That doesn't mean that I won't use other arguments in my arsenal to educate them on animal consumption. I find that arguing for the animals directly is one of the least effective measures of getting people to think about what is on their plate. You have to figure out the best method for whoever you are dealing with. I can't count how many times I have described common farming or slaughter practices to people only to have them say "oh that's terrible" then seeing them tuck into a burger or steak. Selfishness is a part of the human condition. It is all about number one, that's just how it is. Which is why the health argument tends to work the best, I don't care why someone goes veg, I just care that they do it. I showed a friend earthlings, they thought it was terrible but kept eating animal products. I lent them the china study, so far they're off dairy and now they're getting freaked over meat and eggs too. When I said I will stay vegetarian primarily for my health it is because in vitro meat is going to become viable eventually. And, even if in vitro meat is a success I don't think it will be any healthier than animal flesh. I could never eat any true meat ever again because I do see it as wrong to use animals for humans.