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Is it morally correct to have your own children?

:L

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4_da_animals1 4_da_animals1 SA Posts: 3293
51 6 Mar 2012
xMISSMONSTERx said:
4_da_animals1 said:
Abbiesaurus said:
TheSixthStitch said:
Before you commit yourselves and jump into the deep end...

Why is the world 'overpopulating'? Are there groups/cultures/nations responsible for, or contributing to, overpopulation? How do we know?

Is not having children of your own going to have an affect on overall population numbers? Will adopting make a difference? What are the potential consequences that can arise from adoption?

Why is not having children and/or adopting the right approach? If this is a global problem, what is the likelihood that people around the world would adopt the same approach? (no pun intended)

Do you realise what you'd be giving up? Why is choosing to have a child of your own selfish? What does this say about the world?
I don't think having your own children is selfish, as long as you are doing it for good moral reasons.

I think overpopulation in more wealthy countries such as Australia has a lot to do with the introduction of vaccinations, a plentiful supply of fresh food and clean water, medical advancements and easier access to medical treatment which is resulting in a longer life expectancy.
In developing nations I would say it has a lot to do with lack of availability to birth control, higher child mortality rates (parents have more kids as they expect some of them may die), and because larger families means there is more hands to help out with labor, working on farms etc.

In Australia I don't think we have to worry about overpopulation too much at this point in time, but it is something that we should start to think about.
Of course not having children will make an impact on the population if enough people do it, just as China's one child policy has been successful in reducing their population.
I think if we ever had to take action on our population in Australia then the best way to go about it would be to adopt something similar to China's one child policy. People still get to experience giving birth, have their own biological child and can raise them as they wish.

I can't talk from experience, but I would say the love and dependence you receive from a child would make you feel loved and wanted regardless of whether they are adopted or your own birth child.
But how do you police that kind of thing? Order sterilisation after one child?
They police it in china with forced abortions.
You'll find that most of the smaller 'rural' areas in china couples are allowed to have more than one child if their local authority is okay with it, and if you have twins you aren't forced to pick which one you keep.

As with any rule, there's ways to bend it.
The idea of someone forcing that kind of control over your body is sick. sad
I understand the reasoning behind it.. but it just sounds so wrong.. But at the same time I guess it's no different than pushing for a law that makes desexing of unregistered dogs mandatory. I'[m glad I'm not the one to make these kinds of decisions.
It reminds me of this organisation who pays druggies to be sterilised. I understand the morals behind it but I don't agree with it. PAying a druggie to be on temporary contraception like the needle is a much better option.
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Catyren Catyren WA Posts: 542
52 6 Mar 2012
The overpopualtion issue is mostly coming from the developing world, since they don't have access to contraception like we do. Australia has what is known as an "ageing population" people are living longer and having fewer kids. The birth rate in developed nations is very low in comparison to the rest of the world so I don't see it as selfish to have a child, particularly since when we get old there won't be enough young people to look after us which is where the whole baby bonus thing came from. The only way to combat the over population issue is to make contraception easily available in developing countries because this is where the growth is happening, not here.
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Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
53 6 Mar 2012
Catyren said:
The overpopualtion issue is mostly coming from the developing world, since they don't have access to contraception like we do. Australia has what is known as an "ageing population" people are living longer and having fewer kids. The birth rate in developed nations is very low in comparison to the rest of the world so I don't see it as selfish to have a child, particularly since when we get old there won't be enough young people to look after us which is where the whole baby bonus thing came from. The only way to combat the over population issue is to make contraception easily available in developing countries because this is where the growth is happening, not here.
That is true. In a lot of developing countries because of social or economic reasons people have large families, people have babies earlier and like you said contraception. A big reason why i think people have less babies in 1st world countries because women either don't want to have a baby or can't, because with more education and better careers.

I think though what happens here still affects the world, so we can't be popping out babies nilly willy. Things like this aren't black and white, but i think having one baby isn't selfish. The difference between generations is an issue, but i guess its better to get this over and done quickly in a few generations for the good of the planet. Hopefully with better technology and specialized immigration (such as visas targeted to aged care workers etc.) aging countries like Aus should be fine.
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Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
54 8 Mar 2012
Anon said:
Casper.s2 said:
everyone isn't an idiot though... and it is easier for idiots to obviously not be confined by the laws of common decency and accepted practice so the only people you're inflicting this opinion upon... are all of those who don't need it to be 'difficult' to have a child, to 'force' them to be what?? more compassionate human beings.. this topic is starting to get stupid
I am merely saying that there is responsibility in raising a child, whether that child is adopted or not. Being a responsible parent, to me, seems to be judged more/harsher where the parent is adopting and raising that child, rather than in raising a child that the parent bore. If it is essential for someone to wait ten years to be considered acceptable or responsible enough to have a child, why aren't we compelled to feel the same way with other people, those who can have children, who don't sit through lengthy procedures, and get caught in red tape, etc.

If it were up to me I'd encourage soon-to-be-parents to take some sort of course on learning responsibility. I don't think everyone is an idiot, but there are idiots that have children. Some people think it's child abuse to raise their child vegan while some vegans think it's child abuse to raise their child eating meat. We are all guilty of questioning the methods in which children are raised.
I know a couple who have a child and the mother is pregnant with their second child. They are living off one pay check (casual work). To me that is not good enough when raising two children.

BTW, I believe you misinterpreted what I said: 'any idiot can have a child'. I didn't mean 'ANY idiot', I meant 'any IDIOT'.
Laws are put in place sigh freedoms in mind..

A person's right to bare a child... is a quintessential part of being.

Thus to put any rule on such a fundamentally instinctive process is overly offensive and detrimental to the wills and minds of all humans. There are laws and I mean ARE, in most all adverse instances you 'breathe light to' which can be enacted to remove a child from such situations, but to prevent such an occurance (as birth from sex) without implied constraints on ALL humans.

Well... there is no generalized law which can be enforced more than common decency or accepted practice. which would bring justice to all faculties of human conscious existence we call life...

This be as well known as it is.... this topic is getting stupid.

Your so called sense of a frown upon those raising orphans is misguided by an often subversive medium and or misplaced by way of biased experience led reason.

Considering it is the same force which binds the non-physical laws, such as common sense and the aforementioned, that if enacted... your suggestions of a physical infliction to be put over humanity... wouldn't be necessary, nor are they.

You anger at a system which is that being spat on by those who enact these crimes, like living entirely as a leech to it? Yet you are pointing these people out as a flaw of the system.... like those laws being observed to be broken, to be those flaws... are not actually put in place to enact the purpose you seek.

Divert your misanthropy to a faceless authority? Or take it maybe... that the laws in place to protect orphans are in place for those very qualities once again, but this time it is you who spit on them.. as if they are meant to be put there as an insult to humanity... spit on them as if they are inflicted upon you... fight for your right to be treated specifically...

fore someone's anger has been taken into consideration by this faceless authority... in the past... or rest assured, there wouldn't be regulations abroad on the standards necessary for adoption... and how these standards commanded by class and manner... people are bound to be a certain way, a generic, civilized member or 'sow'-'ciety', or at least are more likely to be put through the system, (although possibly far less fit) than a hippy...  is your concern?

so your solution is to inflict upon more that which you feel inflicted upon yourself, even though hypothetically... or in theory, or by experience...

this to me.... is the problem in the world... this to me is the justifications people use to overt the laws of common decency and accepted practice and live unaffected by them... and live in the shadow of their own silhouette, that anger.. expressed by a world which has not caused it... and who causes it by doing so. (and thus can be said their own)

because I cannot tell if you're being ironic or honest
because common sense can be manipulated, merely to pretend an intention behind common decency, merely to pretend accepted practice to be the epitome of cliched sickness...

I see noone dictate conformity and constraints, more than those whom fear of it.


p.s.

say it is up to you then... encourage parents to be well...

because as idealistically it way seem a blessing... a course is 1. insulting and 2. soon to be seen another excuse to waste paper and occupy space, once established (I should add then, self complimented upon the initiative of) taking someone's emotive lacking the motivation, advice - again people feeling they own something by identifying with it... you take a responsibility that isn't your own.. pass it on for someone else to resolve... always flippantly passed on (as if it were a lucky coin flipped for chance and the government were the powers that be, which decide its' fate) to the same company which has made a business out of never finishing a job... they happily would accept... (you don't realize the delay is them substantiating, legislating away liability for profiting and doing everything You and you{counter} want) attempting to work out the inconsolable difference and knowingly trying to create a movement which cannot be done in the medium of choice... thus... the economy is result of work which is maintenance, when economy is society and all work is maintenance causing work is thus growth... "the more breaks the better"...1. because we're destine to be broke this way and then are destine to be rich... because simply...to all be human and equal in theory, then the poorer we are, the more wealth of worth there is to be rich, to have the luxury of being human and thus deserving human rights: divide a pyramid how every many times, but there is only ever room for I at the top, wewewewe until I am rich 2. what else is there to stop us from being in heaven, but to make a hell out of the Earth.

with out obvious prospect depletion of the planet, would a counter movement be able to identify itself to do the exact opposite, thus essentially splitting like a cell that alienates itself.. "I don't want to be here, I don't want to die, I don't want to live in this world, but I don't want to stop living off it"... growing like a cancer.



A well oiled machine, considering the emotive is planted just like a seed of doubt and harvested with the assurance, noone has the will to profit from negativity via their own positivety, which would be utilized in the solution; tended to by the instilled assumption that people are prejudice as a whole and a whole being a society, it is doomed to see itself as a mirror and self destruct at every available pause, being a blessing or a cure, thus re-incarnating itself every time...without. like it looks to see a conscious beauty, which is destroyed in-between glances and vision.

is the whole world as an organism of people living in angst... destroying the nutrient of the earth so that it may cripple the earth into stagnant longevity, rather than living out a brilliant finitecy. (quality of being finite, in context of being ideal vs perfect)


précis

to anger at the world for not having what you have,
is to anger at the government for not making the world Australia

and to see Australia as the creation of a government
is to live blinded by misanthrope


woops I meant, you know it is wrong to force someone to change,
so why is it alright to force someone else to enforce such a thing

or rather, people are the problem, but not the cause?



preemptive:

I don't have the right to identify you're inflicting anger by expressing it senselessly without seeming offensive
yet i'm sure you'd feel you more than have the right to 'speculate aimlessly' i'm on crack without seeming defensive

truths need more rights because wrongs have them all

analogy:

people could see us splitting as adversaries of adversity  

when essentially we are the same side of the thing -- anonymous

not agreeing entirely doesn't make things in opposition


Alike people and government, society and poverty; 1 and 3 are by and by a difference used to gauge value of the whole metric system, first and third -- world; gold and bronze -- age) and spoil is the currency payed as wages,  when oil is the currency playing off wagers. "I bet you all the oil in the well, (which I refine to be lamp oil), that the future world will be fueled by using alternative energy (I define to be anything but the former)." bound to win, when betting the winnings on each outcome of income; each acquisition dignifies again the invention of progress, with each negatively logical speculation continuing that with every loss. there must be a profit.

it is funny that we value the future over the past when evaluating the present as the source and gauge of wealth, when in sight of everything but ourselves being worthy. diamonds and fossil fuels, the condensed pre-history of life. we can't seem to put the past behind us, without destroying it to make a future out of the present. like nothing exists, unless needed and orphans exist although not unwanted.
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Kacey Michelle Kacey Michelle NSW Posts: 92
55 8 Mar 2012
Out of curiosity: our right to procreate is our nature and essential to our being and such. Does that also apply to animals, and thus: are you against the desexing of certain animals or disallowing them to mate?
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Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
56 12 Mar 2012
Kacey Michelle said:
Out of curiosity: our right to procreate is our nature and essential to our being and such. Does that also apply to animals, and thus: are you against the desexing of certain animals or disallowing them to mate?
me?

Christians believe humans have the right to not accidentally be trodden on like ants, by Gods, plans travelling atomic masses, every which where.

I personally try to give ants that right by being mindful of where I walk, when I can.


But to directly answer your query on synchronized rights... I tend to keep away from getting involved seriously with even considering speculating on something like this.
For instance in my ideal place in this unideal society, I wouldn't have a pet, for many reasons over and above this quandary. Which all means... the necessity, if there is one for that to occur... is contrived... or has come about via human social mechanisms.

So... do I think animals have rights to bare their own children and not have scientists nosing around in their butts/homes while they are out being the most diligent parents, doing their best, but no better (as not to destabilize equilibrium), with the baffoons going 'we're helping you as a species from us'... sure I do.

There is this dialogue with animals we have and it goes.... if you aren't strong enough to survive us... then we don't care if we lose you on this Earth... it'l just be called natural.. and we cannot intervene...

because you're dealing with an Animal here which cannot survive itself... so you have to be able to weather us.... to exist... because we won't be here to look after any of you when we take developmental rivalry (like wolves) that step further and self expire.

I think humans and all creatures have the right to be free of that... is what i'm saying... and i'm simply expressing that through the context of 'morally correct to have your own children'... which in answering to I completely recomposed the whole concept of it to be able to say anything.. so if that was all taken on board... your query wouldn't exist in the exact same light... taking into account the exact same fundamental lusions (de, il, al)... that are circumstances of a humanity.


this plant happened to be here, at this time and someone took a liking to it until it became  familiar and so it may exist... these plants aren't modern enough... so they can cease to remain. this animal happened to take a liking to me in my eyes... so I will own it, keep it... and make it a fate.... woops it humped my neighbours pot plant.. off with its' twig and berries.

lol_ lol you're question is based on a misunderstanding... on a sequestered right we firstly don't have and are flaunting by even progressing to council the details... like auctioning off an old e-state, bought from some squatters
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RaV3N RaV3N WA Posts: 2152
57 13 Mar 2012
4_da_animals1 said:
RaV3N said:
4_da_animals1 said:
I don't know personally whether I want to have children for myself when I'm older, but I would certainly consider being a surrogate for some of my male gay friends, and wouldn't mind a similar offer if I wanted to have a child and had a female partner at the time.
Opinions?
I believe this is illegal in Australia.... I have NO idea why. I can see the legal reasons behind it, but the moral reasons should out weigh them.
Seriously?
I lose more and more respect for Australia everyday.
Sorry I stand corrected... I know it's legal in WA BUT it's a long process, not of the IVF but the counselling. There was a law bought in in 2009 and only 1 couple out of the whole state have gone through with it and bub is due to be born any day now.
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4_da_animals1 4_da_animals1 SA Posts: 3293
58 14 Mar 2012
RaV3N said:
4_da_animals1 said:
RaV3N said:
4_da_animals1 said:
I don't know personally whether I want to have children for myself when I'm older, but I would certainly consider being a surrogate for some of my male gay friends, and wouldn't mind a similar offer if I wanted to have a child and had a female partner at the time.
Opinions?
I believe this is illegal in Australia.... I have NO idea why. I can see the legal reasons behind it, but the moral reasons should out weigh them.
Seriously?
I lose more and more respect for Australia everyday.
Sorry I stand corrected... I know it's legal in WA BUT it's a long process, not of the IVF but the counselling. There was a law bought in in 2009 and only 1 couple out of the whole state have gone through with it and bub is due to be born any day now.
Ahhk. I brought it up with my mum the other night and in the majority of places it seems to be legal but only in close family situations? Something like that. So the gay thing wouldn't apply there.. I'd like to meet that couple you mention happy.
Also interesting thought, if it was legal would the couple use artificial insemination or attempt "natural ways"?
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Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
59 14 Mar 2012
4_da_animals1 said:
Also interesting thought, if it was legal would the couple use artificial insemination or attempt "natural ways"?
Do you mean like a gay men having sex with a gay woman so one of them can have a baby?
Supposedly it happens a fair bit.
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Casper.s2 Casper.s2 SA Posts: 1640
60 14 Mar 2012
I think if this happened frequently enough, the number of Gay guys would rapidly increase.
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