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Unethical vegetarians and vegans...

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Evonne Evonne NSW Posts: 59
111 19 Apr 2010
I was speaking to a friend who is Veg and has a baby 2 months younger than my baby. She was talking about how she wants her daughter to be Veg and is looking for a balanced diet from a range of different veg foods for good nutrition, which I respect.  Then she went on to say she was going to get her baby vaccinated the next day. I was thinking about all the poor monkeys, killed for their cells, and the thought of an aborted feotus been injected into her baby was making sick. What a contradiction!!!!

Animal, Plant and Human rights are all connected. Remember some animals would not survive without consuming another animal. Try telling a Lion to be veg.. It's nature and thats the way nature intended it to be, but there is fine line of whats right and wrong.

Plants also are also living things and maybe some of you would understand this if you studied Botany. Plants are amazing, clever and beautiful just like animals. Some plants eat animals e.g venus fly trap and some rare plants from the amazon trap animals eat them. It is all part of survival and there is a reason for everything in nature.

I think it is important to respect humans, animals and plants and buy as ethically as we can through knowledge and careful observation.

Soy is responsible for alot of Amazon damage, which in return destroys the environment of animals, indigenous communities and plants which are used as herbal medicines. Soy, unless fermented is also toxic and bad to your health.

Palm oil is toxic when used for frying and and not so good for our health if it has been highly processed. It iis also responsible for human rights issues in Latin America and Asia. Many animals and people have been displaced and killed to get palm oil.

Vegies and Fruit, unless organic are an environmental hazard because of the pesticides used and unless you do not use manure from animals are very hard to grow.  Other animals are affected from harsh chemicals in pesticides and die due to lack of clean drinking water.

If you drive a car, use petrochemicals in any way or travel on an airpoplane you most probably are supporting amazon destrcution. Chevron and Texaco, BHP Milton etc are responsible for huge environmental damage in the amazon and around the world, which is cruel to all living beings including animals. Vegeteterians should think about this too.

In the end, we humans are over consuming everything and it is all unethical. We live in a cruel, processed, money making and unethical world and its up to us to choose the right path.

Indigenous people consume animals and plants ethically and are an example to all of us, that we can save our environment and be part of a natural food chain without being unethical.

fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me VIC Posts: 376
112 19 Apr 2010
Evonne said:
Indigenous people consume animals and plants ethically and are an example to all of us, that we can save our environment and be part of a natural food chain without being unethical.
Last time I checked, unnecessarily taking life was unethical. We live in a world in which it is unnecessary to do so. The indigenous people I assume you are referring to are the ones that don't have a modern, informed society like we do, with the cruelty-free, healthy alternatives we do, and for that reason may consume animals, ethically or not. They can't really be compared to us, can they?

There is no - point - no - need to consume animals with our resources.

fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me VIC Posts: 376
113 19 Apr 2010
fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me said:
Evonne said:
Indigenous people consume animals and plants ethically and are an example to all of us, that we can save our environment and be part of a natural food chain without being unethical.
Last time I checked, unnecessarily taking life was unethical. We live in a world in which it is unnecessary to do so. The indigenous people I assume you are referring to are the ones that don't have a modern, informed society like we do, with the cruelty-free, healthy alternatives we do, and for that reason may consume animals, ethically or not. They can't really be compared to us, can they?

There is no - point - no - need to consume animals with our resources.

As for your other examples of human inflicted cruelty, it is not possible to live entirely cruelty free. and to an extent, we have the right to live happy, full lives too. I am definitely not saying its ok to take advantage for pleasure, that would go against the whole vegan principle, of which i am one. but we all have to draw a line somewhere.

Evonne Evonne NSW Posts: 59
114 20 Apr 2010
Indigenous people have alot more connection and sustainability in their land than we do in our so called informed society. They are not the ones responsible for environmental destruction and pollution. They have alot more knowledge of animal life and plant medicinal uses and sustainabilty.

Are you suggesting that plants and animals are cruel as well??? They also kill to survive.

Also if you eat plants you are also cruel if they are purchased unethically. Foods such as soy and palm oil are responsible for animal cruelty as well because they are destroying the environment which they need to survive.  Also plants are a living thing, why should you eat and kill them?????? It is the same thing.

I am assuming tht you do not have leather shoes or bags, drive a car with unethical oil from company's such as shell and chevron who kill animals due to contamination of their environment and water, travel on a plane, get vaccinated, use cosmetics with collagen (which comes from animal fat) and many other animal ingredients Are you even aware that many pharmaceuticals test on animals? You need to check all avenues if you are really true to your argument otherwise it is a contradiction on your part.

If you really care about animal rights and are cruelty free, it goes way beyond the meat you eat.

Eating meat is natural, necessary and is part of survival. Indegenous people do not eat meat often as they are aware of how many should be consumed in order to keep the species of different animals around. It is due to the modern world, their animals have become extinct and are suffering form environmental damage.

We are very ignorant in our society's and with all the knowledge we are still the world number one polluters which kills animals of all kinds and we are getting sicker ourselves.

Clud Clud VIC Posts: 1559
115 20 Apr 2010
Evonne said:
Indigenous people have alot more connection and sustainability in their land than we do in our so called informed society. They are not the ones responsible for environmental destruction and pollution. They have alot more knowledge of animal life and plant medicinal uses and sustainabilty.

Are you suggesting that plants and animals are cruel as well??? They also kill to survive.

Also if you eat plants you are also cruel if they are purchased unethically. Foods such as soy and palm oil are responsible for animal cruelty as well because they are destroying the environment which they need to survive.  Also plants are a living thing, why should you eat and kill them?????? It is the same thing.

I am assuming tht you do not have leather shoes or bags, drive a car with unethical oil from company's such as shell and chevron who kill animals due to contamination of their environment and water, travel on a plane, get vaccinated, use cosmetics with collagen (which comes from animal fat) and many other animal ingredients Are you even aware that many pharmaceuticals test on animals? You need to check all avenues if you are really true to your argument otherwise it is a contradiction on your part.

If you really care about animal rights and are cruelty free, it goes way beyond the meat you eat.

Eating meat is natural, necessary and is part of survival. Indegenous people do not eat meat often as they are aware of how many should be consumed in order to keep the species of different animals around. It is due to the modern world, their animals have become extinct and are suffering form environmental damage.

We are very ignorant in our society's and with all the knowledge we are still the world number one polluters which kills animals of all kinds and we are getting sicker ourselves.
I don't mind people being on this board if they are not vegetarians or vegans, but this is an animal welfare website and this website supports veganism and vegetarianism. You don't also have to but if your going to carry on and be rude about us saving animals lives then get out of here. This website is not for that.

MEAT IS NOT NECCESARY! DO YOU THINK WE JUST LIE ABOUT NOT EATING MEAT? DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE ONLY WAY WE SURVIVE? BY SECRETLY EATING MEAT? A LOT OF US HERE DO NOT EAT MEAT AND WE LIVE PERFECT HEALTHIER LIVES!

Ok enough of a rant and back to the debate.

First of all, some plants are grown unsustainabley and some arn't, but we can easily find out how they are grown or obtain sustainable plants such as Non GM soy etc and buying organic and from markets etc. Also plants do not feel pain, animals do. We don't need to eat animals, but we do need to eat plants. Even meat eaters need plants to live.

I find it really silly how you are talking about this stuff about the Indegenous people. You do realise that most of them live normal modern lives like us? And the traditional way of their life is the nomadic life. They hunt and they gather, and once they have hunted and gathered everything on that land they go off to another part of the country and hunt and gather all from that land. Not so sustainable. I am not saying all farms are sustaible, but farms when done properly are the more sustainable better way.

fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me fAeRiEs ArE aFtEr Me VIC Posts: 376
116 20 Apr 2010
Evonne said:
Indigenous people have alot more connection and sustainability in their land than we do in our so called informed society. They are not the ones responsible for environmental destruction and pollution. They have alot more knowledge of animal life and plant medicinal uses and sustainabilty.

Are you suggesting that plants and animals are cruel as well??? They also kill to survive.

Also if you eat plants you are also cruel if they are purchased unethically. Foods such as soy and palm oil are responsible for animal cruelty as well because they are destroying the environment which they need to survive.  Also plants are a living thing, why should you eat and kill them?????? It is the same thing.

I am assuming tht you do not have leather shoes or bags, drive a car with unethical oil from company's such as shell and chevron who kill animals due to contamination of their environment and water, travel on a plane, get vaccinated, use cosmetics with collagen (which comes from animal fat) and many other animal ingredients Are you even aware that many pharmaceuticals test on animals? You need to check all avenues if you are really true to your argument otherwise it is a contradiction on your part.

If you really care about animal rights and are cruelty free, it goes way beyond the meat you eat.

Eating meat is natural, necessary and is part of survival. Indegenous people do not eat meat often as they are aware of how many should be consumed in order to keep the species of different animals around. It is due to the modern world, their animals have become extinct and are suffering form environmental damage.

We are very ignorant in our society's and with all the knowledge we are still the world number one polluters which kills animals of all kinds and we are getting sicker ourselves.
Ok. Let's start from the beginning.

It is NOT possible to live a cruelty free life. Its just not. As a vegan, I avoid as much cruelty as is reasonably possible. Of all the people to be ranting at that are participating in cruelty/consumerism/environmentally damaging activities, why on an animal rights board???

As for being cruel to plants? Grow up. When was the last time you saw a mushroom attempt to escape from its consumer? Or a carrot scream in pain? The difference between eating plants and eating animals is that we KNOW we are causing pain with animals. We KNOW it's not what they would choose if given a choice. We are animals too, and with life and living comes the need to survive and sustain and nourish ourselves. Without food, like all animals and plants, we die. So to some extent, we are going to impact on some form of life as other animals and plants do also. However we have the option to make as little impact as possible by making informed choices of what we consume/wear/how we entertain ourselves. This purist vegan bullshit is exactly that - bullshit. Not possible. To be 100% cruelty free, we could start discussing behaviour, and how the way we act affects other humans also. But, lets not.

The animal world is only cruel from our perspective, as cruelty is for most parts a human emotion. Animals need to survive as we do, and for some of them, that means killing other animals. Throughout human evolution, we have also killed animals as there may not have been the information or alternatives available, and for that i bear no grudge.

It's a bit of a joke that you are asking me if i'm aware of animal testing. Perhaps doing a little bit of background reading into what this website represents would be a good idea before making attacks like that. I don't use or purchase leather, silk or wool products. I purchase cruelty free cosmetics/beauty products. I don't get vaccines, and I avoid medicine's where I can, but within reason. I don't go to the zoo, the circus, or the aquarium. I don't have any pets. I avoid animal cruelty. Hence the title, VEGAN. Are you?

What you are suggesting, as a cruelty free life, is essentially mass-suicide. It's the only way we can stop affecting other life in a humane fashion.

_Matt _Matt VIC Posts: 1567
117 20 Apr 2010
Evonne said:
Foods such as soy and palm oil are responsible for animal cruelty as well because they are destroying the environment which they need to survive.
Ummmmmmm, why do you care if they survive if you're going to eat them anyway?

Always remember: eating animals does not help their survival. In fact, I have quite a bit of empirical evidence to suggest the contrary. Yep, I am indeed making the accusation that eating animals means killing them.

xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
118 20 Apr 2010
RaV3N said:
Lemon said:
eMMA-Lee said:
what are your thoughs on McHappy Day? unethical for the animals but good for the sick kids and familys.

just thought id put this out there even though i think no one on here would have bought a big mac, lol.
i suppose its good for the sick kids, but the animals they probably make the burgers from are just as sick. maybe they should do a vegie/vegan burger to raise funds.
Siff Maccas will ever release a veggie burger!! But we can all pray they do.
It doesn't sound too silly... Hungry Jacks did it.

xMISSMONSTERx xMISSMONSTERx WA Posts: 2582
119 20 Apr 2010
Callum said:
Evonne said:
Indigenous people have alot more connection and sustainability in their land than we do in our so called informed society. They are not the ones responsible for environmental destruction and pollution. They have alot more knowledge of animal life and plant medicinal uses and sustainabilty.

Are you suggesting that plants and animals are cruel as well??? They also kill to survive.

Also if you eat plants you are also cruel if they are purchased unethically. Foods such as soy and palm oil are responsible for animal cruelty as well because they are destroying the environment which they need to survive.  Also plants are a living thing, why should you eat and kill them?????? It is the same thing.

I am assuming tht you do not have leather shoes or bags, drive a car with unethical oil from company's such as shell and chevron who kill animals due to contamination of their environment and water, travel on a plane, get vaccinated, use cosmetics with collagen (which comes from animal fat) and many other animal ingredients Are you even aware that many pharmaceuticals test on animals? You need to check all avenues if you are really true to your argument otherwise it is a contradiction on your part.

If you really care about animal rights and are cruelty free, it goes way beyond the meat you eat.

Eating meat is natural, necessary and is part of survival. Indegenous people do not eat meat often as they are aware of how many should be consumed in order to keep the species of different animals around. It is due to the modern world, their animals have become extinct and are suffering form environmental damage.

We are very ignorant in our society's and with all the knowledge we are still the world number one polluters which kills animals of all kinds and we are getting sicker ourselves.
I don't mind people being on this board if they are not vegetarians or vegans, but this is an animal welfare website and this website supports veganism and vegetarianism. You don't also have to but if your going to carry on and be rude about us saving animals lives then get out of here. This website is not for that.

MEAT IS NOT NECCESARY! DO YOU THINK WE JUST LIE ABOUT NOT EATING MEAT? DO YOU THINK THAT IS THE ONLY WAY WE SURVIVE? BY SECRETLY EATING MEAT? A LOT OF US HERE DO NOT EAT MEAT AND WE LIVE PERFECT HEALTHIER LIVES!

Ok enough of a rant and back to the debate.

First of all, some plants are grown unsustainabley and some arn't, but we can easily find out how they are grown or obtain sustainable plants such as Non GM soy etc and buying organic and from markets etc. Also plants do not feel pain, animals do. We don't need to eat animals, but we do need to eat plants. Even meat eaters need plants to live.

I find it really silly how you are talking about this stuff about the Indegenous people. You do realise that most of them live normal modern lives like us? And the traditional way of their life is the nomadic life. They hunt and they gather, and once they have hunted and gathered everything on that land they go off to another part of the country and hunt and gather all from that land. Not so sustainable. I am not saying all farms are sustaible, but farms when done properly are the more sustainable better way.
exactly, indigenous people used up the land completely before moving on. Highly unsustainable, what a rediculous argument.

We do what we can, none of us are saints. And we definately live a more environmentally sustainable lifestyle than the majority. Veganism shouldn't be a purity pissing contest.

Evonne Evonne NSW Posts: 59
120 20 Apr 2010
I am not being rude just expressing my views. Thank you for being insulting of my cultural background though, you are truly a humanatarian hey!!!!! Indigenous peolple protect the earth and the home of animals. What have you done to protect animals?

There is such a thing as a ethical meat eater, as my true vegan friends know and respect me for.

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