LOL angelic V (?)

Totally agree with you MattY!

When I was vegetarian I would come up with the same excuses "Yes, I  wear leather, but it's ok since the animal is already dead and it'll just go to waste" etc etc.

I was never on any veg forums when I was vegetarian (only since becoming vegan) so I'm so impressed to see so many vegetarians on here... Sometimes it just takes time

yeah.
and i am working on going vegan, i'm just choosing to do it slowly which is a good idea, in my opinion.
but being vegetarian is better than eating meat, anyhow

^^^^^^^^

definatley. MatY cant say that we're as bad as meat eaters. its offensive and mean. in many ways we are just as good as you, maybe even better as vegetarians dont seem as mean as vegans. no offence. i love vegans, its just that what he said wasnt nice.

I don't think it was mean-spirited, or an I'm-better-than-you kind of thing, I think he was just trying to make a point of how cruel milk actually is, because i think a lot of people think "oh, cows like being milked, it's totally fine". Is there really a nice way of pointing out cruelty?

i dont think that cows being milked is fine. but i just dont like how he said drinking milk was just as bad as eating meat. thats all. im over it now. i realised that im happy with how im living and i realised that i am not cruel to animals and thats the best thing to be.

que? i definitely didn't mean to attack you. i'm not even sure how you interpreted that as an attack.. regardless, i’m sorry anyway.

What i said is that it’s understandable that when people have the problem of disagreeing parents, or serious health concerns, that they can't transition from vegetarian to vegan. obviously, i understand that. what i don't understand is vegetarians thinking they don't contribute to animal suffering while still eating free range eggs and drinking milk.

PETA did an investigation into the milk industry recently: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xqZyhz655g0

being vegetarian or vegan isn't about being "better" than anybody else, as you make it out to be. it's about saving animal lives, and also a statement saying you don't want to be a part of such horrendous and widespread cruelty. what i have a problem with is vegetarians, who won't go vegan for a variety of reasons (e.g. "soy milk tastes bad", "it's too hard"), remaining vegetarian for the same said reasons; saving animal lives, and the statement saying you don't want to be a part of such horrendous and widespread cruelty. because when you drink milk, you obviously do want to be a part of it.

now, i'm not sure how you will interpret this, but for the sake of the millions of dairy cows and bobby calves around the world, i'm going to say it anyway: drinking milk is just as bad as eating meat.

if you disagree, explain why. don't just say i'm "being mean", when all i'm trying to do is help you help animals.

i sincerely hope you make the connection. I’m NOT trying to sound patronizing btw.

here, here

exactly! now i know i'm not totally insane.

they're some of the first responsives you get from someone who eats meat; you're an elitist, you're ruiniing food for me etc etc. the only difference is now, i've copped the same from a vegetarian.  

when debating animal rights, or even animal welfare, there is always going to be conflicting beliefs. i just wish people wouldn't take an argument as a personal attack.

i think we, both vegetarians and vegans, need to forget this buisness and work together to help the animals - lets not argue over which is better, lets just try and help the animals IN ANY WAY WE CAN and forget this little argument.
i'm not taking Lemons side and I'm not taking Matt.Y's side, i'm just saying, its about the animals, nothing else