I know Elgaars Dairy isn’t as ideal as say Barambah (and I did say something to that effect), but I included them in line with the philosophy of supporting dairies who are instigating some level of ethical practice. Most dairies remove calves immediately (literally) or within 3-4 days which causes great stress for the mothers. The farms that do this, in some cases, also do not ‘waste” feed on these bobby calves when they send them to the abattoir. In some cases the calves are considered as waste themselves, and are knocked on the head and disposed of immediately on the farm. Elgaar’s, at least keep the calves for 2-4 months with the mothers. They also have other practices which are leaning towards a more ethical dairy such as using non-animal rennet in their cheeses and keeping retired cows. As I stated in my post, while some dairies are not at the ideal stage, we should support them so that they can remain financial and implement further more humane practices. While they may not be at an ideal level of humane production, they are a) in a mid-level ethical operation which is open to more humane implementation and b) owned and managed by more open minded farmers willing to listen and act on the concerns of the humane farming lobby.
K
It sounds like your heart is in the right place but I disagree that we should be supporting these industries in any way.
An animal rights activist imo should only support Veganism as the moral baseline (some people like 4_animals have circumstances where they can't be Vegan then and there, due to parents or whatever, but Veganism should be the moral baseline of all those who have the ability to choose).
People who aren't going to go Vegan right away will come to their own conclusion about so called "humane dairy" (which doesn't exist). My stance will always be Veganism and I won't in anyway push them in any other direction. If someone asks me "but isn't humane dairy better than normal dairy". I would probably agree but that is like saying "why don't we provide padded chains for the slaves rather than metal chains". Is it better? Yeah probably, but the fundamental question of freedom and cessation of suffering is still not being addressed.
Thanks for everyone’s responses to my post. It concerns me that I offended some of you. I am sorry. It certainly wasn’t my intention…more a poor choice of terminology. I simply wanted to give “Butterfree” some help in response to their question.
Oh…and “Showbags” - thanks for the Mark Twain reminder. It struck a chord.
Thanks for everyone’s responses to my post. It concerns me that I offended some of you. I am sorry. It certainly wasn’t my intention…more a poor choice of terminology. I simply wanted to give “Butterfree” some help in response to their question.
Oh…and “Showbags” - thanks for the Mark Twain reminder. It struck a chord.
K
No worries. I'm full of quotes haha.
I hope you stick around. It's good to have as many perspectives as possible on the forum. We'll make a Vegan out of you yet .
Here's another quote, from Gandhi: "Even if you are a majority of one, the truth is still the truth".
Funnily enough both Twain and Gandhi were believers in animal rights as well.
It is very expensive to raise a bobby calf, I've rescued and raised 6 bobby calves in the last 2 years that I've rescued from the local bobby calf auction ( 3 males and 3 females ) and it costs approx $165 every week to raise one calf let alone hundreds of them.
Don't know how its costing you this much to raise a calf properly should cost around $150-$200 per head using calf milk replacer and pellets
It is very expensive to raise a bobby calf, I've rescued and raised 6 bobby calves in the last 2 years that I've rescued from the local bobby calf auction ( 3 males and 3 females ) and it costs approx $165 every week to raise one calf let alone hundreds of them.
Don't know how its costing you this much to raise a calf properly should cost around $150-$200 per head using calf milk replacer and pellets
The milk replacer costs me $115 per bag and the pellets cost me $50 per bag plus the medication some of the calves where on due to been so sick when I purchased them from the sales and the on going feed, worming and extra costs that come with there everyday living (pasture upkeep, rugs and grooming equipment, water, shelter, electricity and fencing) it is very costly when you have multiple animals to look after but in the end all that matters is that they are happy and healthy
The only dairy I consume is from Barambah Organics.
According to my sources, they don't separate the calves from the mothers in the early days, like almost every other dairy manufacturer does.
When cows become too old to produce milk, they are sent to a grazing paddock, separate from the milk-giving cows where they live out their days happily with each other.
They also have a "cow cemetery" where the remains of deceased cows are placed.
From what I know, they are compassionate and the best option if you choose dairy.
I hope this helps, x.
Barambah's male calves are grown and sold for meat, however: "We are primarily organic dairy and produce some organic beef as well – we keep all our calves and grow the male ones to 2–3 years old." http://www.greenlifestylemag.com.au/features/3058/fresh-farm
Google 'ISKON' - its the International Society for Krishna Consciousness. They promote cow protection, rescue unwanted cows and calfs from dairy farms and protect them for life, and milk their own cows, and sell fresh milk straight from the cow, no processing, nothing - real actual milk.
I hope there is a centre near you.
Also I forgot to mention, at ISKON farms, calves are not separated from their mothers. Many calves, 1 year old, are still feeding from their mums. And remain in the same herd or on the same farm for life.
The plural of calf is calves just for interest. Very few dairies actually kill the calves on the dairy. However, bull calves have no long-term use on a dairy - they don't give milk and only a few bulls are needed to impregnate the cows.
There are ways to deal with bull calves humanely. I leave all my calves on their mothers until they are around 6 or 7 months old (or until they become sexually active). Then they are weaned - the females (heifers) are raised as replacements for the herd and the boys are taken in my trailer to the abattoirs. At least 2 are taken at a time, so they have a mate with them. They are fed in the trailer and enjoy the journey. I take them after the killing has been done for the day and jump them off into a pen together. I try to make sure they are the first killed next morning.
The bodies are taken to the butcher in Canberra and but into portions for my clients and myself. They are delicious having experienced no stress, no sale yards and no cattle prods.
This is the way to care for young bulls. The very best are used as herd bulls and they have a ball!
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plus the medication some of the calves where on due to been so sick when I purchased them from the sales and the on going feed, worming and extra costs that come with there everyday living (pasture upkeep, rugs and grooming equipment, water, shelter, electricity and fencing) it is very costly when you have multiple animals to look after but in the end all that matters is that they are happy and healthy 
